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View Poll Results: Should the US military pull out of Korea?
Yes 8 28.57%
No 16 57.14%
Most of our troops, but leave a small number 4 14.29%
Not sure 0 0%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 10-25-2005, 11:09 PM
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That's a good question! I take it you mean the U.S. seems to have the attitude that
"We" are the policemen for the entire world? I believe this attitude developed over the years, and perhaps evolved as "We" experienced the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the United Nations, among other things. Maybe there is no one else who stepped up to the plate. Maybe we are the 500 lb. Gorilla. Would you rather have let China do it?
My personal feelings lean more toward isolationism! I believe that we should police our own borders first; solve our own problems first; manufacture our own Nike shoes, Wilson golf clubs, and hire our own citizens to work in the now empty factories. I believe that we need to phase out the welfare that has turned much of our younger generation into a credit card abusing, lazy, government dependent group, some of whom have never left their parents' home! I believe that a former president who trafficked in marijuana while governor, and sold classified plans and land in California to a communist nation should pay heavily for that. I don't believe someone died and made us king of the world! I'm not happy that the few children we have who can read, write and understand patriotism should be volunteer cannon fodder in a foreign land.
But, I vote. I served the U.S. government in various capacities for over 30 years. I helped put George Bush in office mainly because the alternative candidate was absolutely and completely unacceptable. I supported President Bush in his decision to remove Saddam Hussein from Iraq, as he and I both believed it was the right thing to do. I still believe that. There were weapons of mass destruction there at the time, and they would have been used against us. Trust me. (Keep reading about Syria.)
I wish we could spend most of our time and money at home, then worry about being the world's police force! But- you can't un-ring the bell! Like it or not, we are the biggest fish in the pond, and probably there is no turning back. We need to maintain our military lead at all costs, or lose it all. Sorry. Your grandchildren may be speaking Chinese soon enough, we do not need to accelerate the inevitable.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:08 AM
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Ivoire,

I guess we kind of got that idea from WWI and WWII --- and then the Cold War.

Or, maybe the idea was refreshed with Bosnia and Kosovo. A deteriating situation to the point of civil war and ethnic cleansing right in Europe's back yard --- and it went on for years --- and the EU nations and the UN and others kept looking at it and wringing hands and saying, "Somebody should do something!!"

And who do you think "somebody" was?

It was Europe's neighborhood, and they kept focusing on it, but Germany and France and the UK would not put force behind policy without the United States taking the military lead.

Everyone loves to talk about the United Nations like it is the federal government of a nation-state ----- that it is the designated law and order body ------ but -- then when it comes to enforcement ------ well...............
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:18 AM
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I have also been toying more and more with the idea of isolationism. I tried to write something up about it, but it didn't work out well. Maybe I'll take it back up.

It is hard to do a real essay on it, because it is hard to find anyone who takes it seriously. They focus so much on the idea in the past, before the end of the Cold War changed the dynamics that made isolationism taboo.

You also have to argue against the knee-jerk, blindly narrow focus on the phrase "isolationism." Even in the strongest period of US isolationistic tendancies, we did not avoid entanglments outside our borders. Isolationism always meant a more strict focus on national interests and avoiding entaglment in places where the costs out weighed the benefits. --- in the traditional past -- it specifically went against getting involved in the balance-of-power connections that shifted around in Europe and caused automatic inclusion in frequent wars.

To talk about a neo-isolationist foriegn policy today, you also have to argue against an antiquated notion that military strategic isolation goes hand in hand with economic isolationism/protectionism.

When you have China, the last powerful communist nation left on earth, deciding to follow the same global free market industrial matrix everyone else of note does ---- it should not be hard for us to imagine how liberal economic free trade can work side-by-side with a policy that limits US strategic military obligations.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2005, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joe
"We" experienced the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the United Nations, among other things..
When did "you" experience that? And what are the "other things"?
Quote:
Would you rather have let China do it?
Why not? For a citizen of Bolivia, Ghana, Moldova (you name it) there is no difference berween the two.
Quote:
I believe that we need to phase out the welfare that has turned much of our younger generation into a credit card abusing, lazy, government dependent group, some of whom have never left their parents' home!
Sure. Spending money on killing other people makes your younger generation intellingent, independent and nice.
Quote:
I believe that a former president who ... should pay heavily for that
I believe that the current president who is responsible for all the people who died in Iraq should be on the dock next to Saddam.
Quote:
There were weapons of mass destruction there at the time, and they would have been used against us. Trust me. (Keep reading about Syria.)
Where is it? Why haven't they used it so far?
(Keep reading American media)
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he and I both believed it was the right thing to do. I still believe that.
No comments.
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I wish we could spend most of our time and money at home, then worry about being the world's police force!
Exactly. How about being the policemen for some districts in New York, DC, LA, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta and so on?
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Your grandchildren may be speaking Chinese soon enough
The irony is that yours will too. Sorry.
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2005, 09:40 AM
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Ivoire Ivoire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usinkorea
I guess we kind of got that idea from WWI and WWII --- and then the Cold War.
Really? So, when did the WWII begin and when did the first American soldier stepped on European or African land?

Quote:
Or, maybe the idea was refreshed with Bosnia and Kosovo. A deteriating situation to the point of civil war and ethnic cleansing right
I got to watch both sides' media at that time. Have you?
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Everyone loves to talk about the United Nations like it is the federal government of a nation-state ----- that it is the designated law and order body ------ but -- then when it comes to enforcement ------ well...............
How much nicer it would be if the US were the federal governement for the rest of the world!
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2005, 09:57 AM
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Ivoire Ivoire is offline
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And a little note on isolationism. You, guys, are, probably, not aware, but you are already isolated. From cultures, languages, music, movies, media, histories of other countries. Right before the war over %90 of locals of ...ville didn't know where Iraq was geografically. Yes, and why to talk about regular people if two thirds of your senators have never issued a passport.

I also want to tell you a little secret: American way of life is not universal for all the 200 (aprx.) contries.
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:10 PM
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This is a good debate!

I would say the U.S. is the first super power that has not an imperialistic power. Let’s take a look at the super powers before the U.S.

U.S.S.R (1930s through 1990)
Invaded or took over 50+ countries through invasions or coups. Communism is responsible for the deaths of some 80 million Chinese and Russians at the hands of Mao and Stalin. 1/3 of Cambodia’s populace was killed in Communist purges.

Germany/Japan (1930s – 1945)
Invaded dozens of European and African nations. Japan treated China, Korean and other nations like animals. Germany is responsible for 6-9 million Jewish deaths and some 40 million war time deaths in Europe.

Ottoman Empire
Take a look at what the Turks did to the Armenians (search in Google). The Ottoman Empire invaded much of the world.

British/French/Spanish Empires
The Europeans invaded and pillaged just about every continent. North American was a play ground for the British, French and Spanish. The British Empire ruled the Middle East, India, and countless other countries. Due some reading on how the Brits treated the Indians and countless other colonies.

It goes on and on.

The U.S is the first super power not to colonize and pillage all the resources of countries that surround them. Yes, we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, but it cost us much more to do it and we set up elections and each has their own constitution. Please name another constitution that mandates women be part of the government. Was the war for oil? The U.S has the capability to take over Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq in less than a few weeks. We could take over these oil fields and Americans would be paying 50 cents a gallon. This is what the Japanese did in the 1930s through out Asian.

Japan and Germany are fantastic countries today. The U.S. invaded then rebuilt those countries. What did the Japanese do in China? Look up the Rape of Peking on Google and let me know what you find. Take a look at South Korea today. Their economy is the third largest in Asia. Do you think the U.S. influence had a little to do with that?

Here is a final thought for people that are pro-European thought. How long has Slobodan Milosevic been on trial? I’ll give you a hint: Allied Force ended around 1999. Milosevic is making a Mockery of The Hague by calling his 1,000th witness. The Saddam trial will be over before the Milosevic is convicted by a European court. The European winds are changing towards the U.S. mind set. Take a look at the most recent elections. In Germany a Pro-US person beat Shroeder. In England Tony Blair won re-election. In polland a conservative, pro-US just won his election yesterday. In Australia, the Pro-US prime minister won re-election.
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:19 PM
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This is one of the best articles I have read about the current situation in Iraq. It is a long read, but well worth it.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...6/250oxjsq.asp

Mike
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:54 PM
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Why don't you bring the statistics on the amount of people died in Latin America, South America and Africa as the result of the US' backstage intrigues and with the hands of local dictators who were set by your democratic government?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike
The U.S has the capability to take over Saudi Arabia ... in less than a few weeks..
You didn't mean with current presidetn, did you?
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Take a look at South Korea today. Their economy is the third largest in Asia. Do you think the U.S. influence had a little to do with that?
It's only because you love Koreans that much, isn't it?
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Here is a final thought for people that are pro-European thought. ... In Australia, the Pro-US prime minister won re-election
Since when is Australia a part of Europe?

Last edited by Ivoire : 10-26-2005 at 02:00 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike
How long has Slobodan Milosevic been on trial?
And has Augusto Pinochet been on trial at all?
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