This is the typical anti-U.S. point of view. The guys that kill have no responsibility for the killing because they were backed by the U.S. I say Saddam was evil and the other side says, “Well, he was supplied by the U.S.”

This is a typical distracter technique in debating, don’t answer the questions, and just ask 10 questions every time someone answers my question.

Australia is not part of Europe, but the Australian President is pre-U.S. If you want to quiz my knowledge of geography, please go ahead. I have been to over 15 countries and know the world well.

Your Augusto Pinochet attempt just proves my point as the Europeans have been protecting him. Where is he now? Do a Google search for the answer.

Here are some final questions for you. Which country contributes the most aid in the world? Which country is the #1 contributor to the UN? Which country has the #1 visa requests? When a world leader gets sick, which country do they come to for surgery? Which country invented the internet and most other invention used around the world?

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I was watching the Lawyer for Saddam get interviewed yesterday on the BBC. Can anyone guess what country he is from? French of course!

He was trying to convince the interviewer that Saddam is being tried by an illegal court. When asked if it was lawful to kill the 80+ people he is on trial for, the lawyer said yes because by attempting to kill the President of Iraq is punishable by death.

The interviewer stated that only a few actually shot at Saddam, so how could he have killed 80 in retaliation? The Frenchman responded with counter questions as he had no good answer.

"Why not? For a citizen of Bolivia, Ghana, Moldova (you name it) there is no difference berween the two."

And the futility of discussion has the red flag waved.

I guess this is why millions of Bolivians, Ghananese, and Moldovians, among others, have flooded China as immigrants and why so many Chinese decide to stay at home...

I'd recommend taking a look at Europe in relation to Iraq War II and which of the European nations lined up doggedly against the US and which had the leaders who signed the letter explaining how perhaps there having more recently come out of backward and repressive regimes gave them a better perspective on what is bad and what is good in the world where nations like France (and people who can make a comment like the one quoted above) have the luxury of flights of fancy.

"Really? So, when did the WWII begin and when did the first American soldier stepped on European or African land?"

You'll have to elaborate on your point. I don't see one.

"I got to watch both sides' media at that time. Have you?"

Which sides? And I'm not going to get into a pointless debate with people who don't even try to make a point. Write something out....

"How much nicer it would be if the US were the federal governement for the rest of the world!"

This typical, and with all due respect to Mike, it isn't debate ---- unless we are in middle school.

Being glib does not make a good debater....

He has written hardly a word out to make any points, and when he has typed out a few sentences, it was stuff like how the world views the US and China as interchangeable, which is probably why he doesn't extend his thoughts. It would be too easy to pick them apart.

And the short shots are equally weak, and I will not respond to them after today...

but since it is today...

"I also want to tell you a little secret: American way of life is not universal for all the 200 (aprx.) contries."

And who said it was?

Strawmen are easy to blow apart, no?

"Why don't you bring the statistics on the amount of people died in Latin America, South America and Africa as the result of the US' backstage intrigues and with the hands of local dictators who were set by your democratic government?"

The standard Guilt By Association argument.

I went out after 9/11 and listening to speech by Noam Chompsky, and I checked out all the tell all CIA and Evil US Backer books I could find to have the case layed out to me, and it made me even more annoyed with these people. Even I could believe there must be solid evidence to back of some of these claims that these books could lay out, but it was all incredibly weak guilt by association.

Like the common whipping boy --- what was it called...the School of the Americas ---- that a certain mind-set of people will frequently march out as prime proof the US was behind the acts of South and Central American rulers.

But not once have I found a source that could show me things like --- a course list with classes like "Electric Shock 101" or "Effective Use of Rape 205".

I believe if you look at the background of many of the military and government leaders in these same South and Central American nations, you will find they have spent time or earned degrees in Ivy League schools in the US and other such top tier universities in European advanced nations....

" You didn't mean with current presidetn, did you?
Quote:
Take a look at South Korea today. Their economy is the third largest in Asia. Do you think the U.S. influence had a little to do with that?

It's only because you love Koreans that much, isn't it?"

Further examples of childishness used to mask weak positions....

This comment does baffle me a little:

I volunteer for duty in Korea, create a Korea discussion forum, and she asks sacastically if I love Koreans.

I am not making my point (except where I said I would like to see your president on the dock or isolationism); wasn't even trying to.
You were making The Point (is it the only one allowed on this forum? ); I highlighted the weak places of yours.

By the way, why do you bring France or Europe while replying to my posts? And why do you think I am a female?

"You were making The Point (is it the only one allowed on this forum? ); I highlighted the weak places of yours."

No. You made glib statements believing they made a point when they don't.

"Is it the one allowed on this forum" in this particular post is typical.

You respond to criticism that you aren't even trying to make a point or engage in an argument/debate but are just throwing out jingoistic one liners by saying you weren't even trying to make a point --- which was my point. Then you jump to implying the criticism is based on an effort to prevent others making points.

Let me state one of my points again.

How about trying to type out a reasoned opinion and engage in a real discussion rather than one liners?

(This means I am far from trying to silence dissent from my own opinion or points. I just want people to put a little effort into the engagement if they are going to throw out one-liners. A one liner is fine ---- as the starting point of larger effort....)

Ivoire,

Oops! Sorry that I confused you as a female, but I only had your screen name to go by. Please add some info to your profile or do an introduction in the new member area.

As far as the "only point" allowed in this forum, I love to hear all opinions. Just be advised you are posting on a mostly military forum. Of course there are going to be a lot of pro-U.S. point of views on here.

Please don't be shy! As long as the debates are civil, I love to see all points presented here.

I am not assuming you are French. I just watched the BBC interview yesterday and that came to mind.

Mike

Ok, so we give the most, but actually we each give basically the least when compared to what others have to begin with....and yes, I am guilty as well.

But at least I know that I am guilty and do not attempt to convince people that Americans are these overly generous people who dig deep to save the needy.

I believe someone already tried this, they were called the United Soviet Socialist Republic and boy they got far with that idea didn’t they. But of course an isolationist wouldn’t know much about other people around the world.

Were you there to see them during this 30 years of service? Maybe you could have shed some light on the over 27,000 U.S. Soldiers and civilian who were looking for them and found two things, jack and sh%t.

what makes you think that the U.S. made any certain impact in either of those wars? Check the stats and them history. Both wars were decided prior to the U.S. entering into decisive operations.

Oh those are supposed to support your argument….what if anything has been settled in either country? First hand experience tells me the same two things that were found in Iraq while looking for weapons of mass destruction, jack and his brother.

Do you even know the difference between communism and socialism?