Seriously, you're just not making any headway on your WWII argument.

American volunteer pilots flew in the Battle of Britain in 1940. American forces began ground conflict with the Germans in North Africa in November 1942. American forces landed in Europe proper with the invasion of Sicily in 1943. So, the US wasn't there in 1939 when Hitler blitzkrieged his way through western Europe, but they were a huge chunk of the force that freed Europe. Of course, maybe since no one asked to be freed, we should have left things alone.

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Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs

The US cannot afford to be less involved in international politics now when they are unannounced world leader. IMO

As to my point. Great Britain yesterday, the US today, China tomorrow...
Doesn't matter what country... Do not cover interests behind beautiful words. You don't really think people are that stupid, huh?

Long ago I read La Fontain's fable about a wolf who wanted to eat a lamb and the lamb kept asking "what wrong did I do that you want to kill me?"; the wolf kept making up some ridiculous reasons until he couldn't make one and simply said "your fault is that I am hungry".

Do not make up reasons. Be that wolf.
People are tired from hearing all that "democratic" stuff and from being kept as fools.

Bear,

I will do the check on internet for you tomorrow about the number of German soldiers, tanks, airplanes and missiles
that took a part in the battles you are talking about.
If you are a soldier you know that one battle is different form the other. Right?

I am not trying to lessen the role of US soldiers in that war (I respect any soldier who fought in that war regardless of their nation), but Americans often sound like they do not know much about the other countries' roles in that war and have a tendency to exaggerate their role at the expence of other nations.

Thus, I heard many times from Americans that they won the WWII, yet, rarely they can provide the true information about the war. Or they provide the information for one side only, like in some posts above.

Keep talking- it is a free internet- we can agree to disagree- at least we won't fall asleep! My home ISP just went out yesterday- if it comes back up tonight I'll be back-even I appear dumber! Opinions are like --- ----s every one has one.

Ivoire,

I missed your longer post that Bear commented on, because the person who posted the images altered the view of the thread on the screen and in the confusion, I missed the page that had that exchange on it.

The post Bear commented on is the type of commenting I recommend though I agree with him it didn't clear up much.

Nice, Mr. Joe, the moderator.

Have I made a hasty conclusion about Americans' good manners?

Ivoire,
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the US single-handedly won anything. Germany lost a majority of their troops fighting in Russia. But without the US fighting in Europe, World War II probably would have ended with Germany occupying a majority of the Continent, if not eventually invading the UK. Germany simply could not win a two-front war.

Your original point was that the US entered after the war was already decided. That's just not the case at all. And of course, now we're just talking about Europe...the Pacific Theater was just as significant and the US played a huge role in defeating Japan.

So yes, the US won WWII. And so did Russia, the UK, France, China and the rest of the Allies.

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Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs

usinkorea,
Sorry about the arcade trophies messing up the screen.

Mike,
Can you look into getting those things to wrap around?

__________________
Hook 'em
Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs

You are mistaken here.
People and the governments begged you to come to open the second front.
Roosevelt (spelling?) supported the coalition since 1941, met with other lerders, kept promising, but no troop was sent until 1944.
To his credit I have to say that he did a lot for the coalition and the US did supply the provisions and weapon.
If I was Roosevelt at that time I would keep my soldiers at home as long as he did.
Germany wasn't a serious threat for the US at that time, why to risk Americans' lives.
Politically it was a wise decision.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being directed by own interests.
It seems like Americans do.
They don't want to know about that part of their history. And some other parts too.
Why is it that important to stay clear and white to the prejudice of facts?

The comment about asking for help was meant to be sarcastic. Those countries occupied by Germany didn't request help...obviously they couldn't.

But, your point about being begged to open a second front makes me wonder...why would a second front be so important if the war was already decided?

I have no problem with the US following its own interests, though I think your opinion is decidedly neorealist. I think internatonal peace and freedom are national interests of the US, and that it is possible for the US to pursue its national interests while trying to make the international community a better place.

__________________
Hook 'em
Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs