The US Military does NOT CAUSE these problems! Nor do they condone or look the other way,(any more). Some of their members who disobey and get caught are in for serious punishment. They are as serious as a heart attack about trying to control HT. They just do not have ANY authority to do anything but tell. No authority to ALLOW or disallow any such actions. Making all bars off limits wouldn't be a long term solution. Read back through all the posts and you will see that much of the really unsavory things happen After the Military Curfew! When the Koreans come in!
It is absolutely NOT TRUE that most of the bars are around Military Posts. There are a LOT more Korean bars that you will never see! Think they don't have imported women? Think again! The Korean Government could do more, but they are the ones who ALLOW the bar owners and the gangsters to operate trafficking. They are not even interested in controlling automobile traffic!

"Only those that want help can be helped." True. as I said, life goes on.

Fact is, I havent done anything yet, so there are not heroic acts to report. I was looking for information so that I could have a plan. Buying a contract directly from the owner would put me in the same crime as those who are practicing human trafficking...But there is no problem with her paying her own contract off, the money has to go from her hands to the owner. I really dont have a problem funding that, just so you know. If she has a visa and passport in her hands, it's valid until it expires. For the right girl, I dont have a problem paying her a salary, or her plane ticket back home before her visa would expire either. If the contract is paid ,there are no bar fines, incurred expenses, and she is free to go. And sure, for the right girl, it would make a world of difference. I'm not married, so it's an option for me. Of course, a lot of the married guys couldn't do that...Even though I'm sure their wives don't know how much fun they are having in juice clubs.

I guess it's really a matter of perspective. If you are a single guy, living off post, with your own transportation, and plenty of resources...then funding a contract pay-off, and providing a girl with the meager salary she gets from the clubs is not such a bad deal over a 6-month to 1 year period. That is assuming of course, there is a mutual attraction, appreciation, and commitment of loyalty there.

I spend time in the clubs/bars also...It's cool. I buy drinks when I feel like it. If I like her, it's all good. No problem with that. And yeah, a lot of the girls are hotties, no doubt.

Well, the majority of the girls I talked to say they will never return to Korea. Maybe it's the difference in treatement between locations. I have yet to meet one girl that has been here 2-3 times...I have met several that have been bounced from club to club though.

Do you know a woman that does not like to shop? I don't. Not a one. And what sense would it make for a girl to turn down a free shopping spree after the fact?


Sorry, I just don't see that. Most of the ones I met had no idea.

If they were prostitutes in PI, I would agree with that. But many had jobs in stores, malls, and other places where they were working - not selling their bodies. And most of the girls I have talked to are ashamed to let their families know exactly what they are doing, or being pressured into doing.

Again, I disagree with that...I dont see it. Try so hard to come back?

And exactly what's wrong with wanting to marry an American for a better life? Lots of these girls have plenty to offer a husband. I would marry the right one...That's a two way street. Many girls in America want to marry GI's for the same reason so I don't see your point on #4.

Well of course they do, and of course they will. If they can sweet talk a guy into coming into the bar with a "i miss you text message", then hey...That's pretty damn good. But we are talking drinks, not sex. Of course they want customers, and of course there are benefits to having customers as friends also. That does not make them whores by default....does it?

Like I said, I was looking for information that could help if they wanted help. I am not trying to save the juice girl population in Korea. When you say "these girls know what they are doing" That's just painting them all with far to wide a paint brush because many do not know until they get here.

And why exactly do you think that is? I talked to many owners. They simply cannot manage Russian girls (on the whole) the way they can girls from the PI. I think you know that allso. Russian girls tend to have a kiss my azz attitude and they end up doing what ever they want to do, going where ever they want to go, and being with whomever they choose to be with and the girls from the PI tend to be far more submissive, rule obiding, and easier to control/manage.

I agree, that the military is not the cause of the problems. I also agree that after curfew is a much more dangerous time for the girls than pre-curfew hours. I don't have a curfew, and I have seen the transformation first hand.

I agree with that also. But you cannot ignore the heavy concentration of juice bars that are right out side of the gates of most military bases here.
Their target clientel is the military and if a club is put off limits, the doors close for that reason alone.

Agreed...Again, I was looking for information that would be of help in that case...Where one wants to be helped. Now I have it.

Slightly off topic....I dont find these women to be any more manipulative than American women, and particularly those that work in strip clubs and bars near military bases back in the world. Most women become bitter towards men after being served up on a platter to them over an extended period of time, and some become lesbians or bi-sexuals as a result of it. Occupational hazard, I guess.

My point is if these girls hate what they are doing then why are they not saving every penny so they can get out? Shopping like there is no tomorrow does not look good on girls who hate being in Korea and don't want to live the life style. Coming to Korea seems to give them more money than they had before. Even the "hero" that has saved many girls has stated you can only help the ones that want to be helped.

PI girls have been coming in and out of Korea for a very long time! You honestly believe that the message is not making it back to the PI? With e-mail, phone and trips back to the PI, these girls have to know what is going on. How do you think these girls even know about the jobs in Korea? Most of them heard about the job from a friend of a friend.

When did I say there was something wrong with this? I have no problem with it.

You have no problem with manipulative girls stringing along 20 guys to make money? My point is these girls are great at making you feel bad for them. The truth is MANY of the girls push the "bar fining" on the guys. I know when I bought a few drinks, I was offered several times to pay the girls tab from the girl! They simply say, "I have 15 drinks I have to sell before I can leave. Can I come home with you?"

You are way off on that one! The only reason the Russian girls are gone is because the U.S. state department asked Korea to stop renewing their visas back in 2002-2003. I know because I was there when it happened. Do you think Korean bar owners hate money? Because ask your average foreigner in Korea and they will pick a Russian girl over a girl from the PI. This is even more true for Korean guys. My Korean friends LOVED Russian girls and really couldn’t stand girls from the PI.

The Russian girls made the Koreans a TON of money. I know the behind the scenes very well because I am invited to the owners office for drinks because I build their web pages and do the bar reviews. If they could they would have Russian girls over girls from the PI because they made them much more money. The main reason the Russian girls are not around is because the U.S. government did not like girls from former-communists countries talking to people with high clearances.

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No, I really don't have a problem with girls stringing along 20 guys to make money....Hell, Mike...Women do that all the time. 20 is a pretty high figure though, aint it? Most of the clubs are pretty dead until the weekend anyway, and you know as well as I do how the guys blow their money a few days after payday. The girls call them one day millionaires for a reason. And the stringing along is a two way street also. How many girls do you know that were promised to be married, and left behind? We don't have to promise these girls anything that we don't want to deliver...so what's up with that? Bullshyt begets bullshyt. Prime time in the clubs is like between 9:30-ish and Midnite, or 1am. That's three and 1/2 hours...They can't process 20 guys thru the drink mill in that short of time. Most nights, it's not even likely that there are 20 guys in the clubs anyway.

If a girl is into you, she will make a way to be with you...bottom line, and that's without paying a bar fine to spend time with her. Women are still women, after all. If a guy thinks a girl is in love with him just because she text messages him saying she misses him....Oh well.

None of these women make me feel bad, I heard all the stories about a sick mother, a house needing bad repairs, a dying grandmother...yada, yada...
Mostly lies, some probably aren't.

Tell you what though, let a girl refuse to bar fine and see how long she stays in the club...Not very long. Now Songtan might not be such a horrible place for some to work, and some club owners treat the girls with some respect, but the girls I know are very much afraid to be shipped off to parts unknown, or to work in strickly Korean clubs. TDC aint exactly a picnic, and the fear of being placed in some of those places is the reason why some of the girls submit to the demands of the local club owners. Some choose the better of two evils.

It appears as though this may be the first time away from a sheltered life. You really should absorb what several individuals have stated in this very long thread. Several of us have seen this over the years. A few years ago there was a massive sweep of Phillpinas in Songtan. This was in response to a request from the Philippine Consulate. There were numerous stories that appeared in the S&S during this time. I believe in response to the Consulate the KNP’s went out of their way to ensure most Phillipinas were gone. The ones left behind were the Russian girls and a few Koreans. Mike mentioned it was the Russians, therefore maybe my memory is failing as well <g>.

The commonality again is money. You do not have to come to Korea to get someone to tell you a story where a possible $10 - $50 drink may be the reward on whoever happens to feel sorry for their situation.

As for the juicy bars outside the gates. I am not sure where you have been in Korea; however, this is only a very limited operation. In fact the real money is made away from US installations. It is not uncommon for a Korean male to spend I excess of a couple G’s in an evening out on the town. I have not seen many American’s except contractors who have a short visit there who was sucked in using a credit card.

As for the government cracking down on prostitution in Korea, this has been tried several times before. The most recent one was closing of the glass house area. The women protested in front of the US Embassy that they also had a right to live and they wanted to go back to work. There is also a KNP box in the middle of this area. They are there to keep things as normal as possible.

I believe you will discover the real deal the longer you stay. It is business as usual. I did not intend to flame you; rather inform you guys with good attitudes, wanting to help the innocent victims out of a bad situation. I believe most who have would responded in this thread would offer to assist a victim anyway they could. As Mike mentioned the majority are making good money for their families back home.

I keep reading that TDC is bad. Can someone tell me why as I have never been there. Thanks.

The military is indeed the problem. Please do not misunderstand me I have no anger toward the military and I have good friends that are military. But the large concentration of the "Juicy Bars" is outside of military camps. I have seen first hand that when the military puts a bar off limits that the bar usually closes. I also agree that you go to some korean districts i.e. Jongno and there are a ton of karoake places that have girls serving basically in the same function as the juicy girls near American camps. However, the problem we are discussing here is the juicy bars. All it takes is for the U.S. Army to make them off limits and the ones near camps will close. Has anyone been around long enough to remember Tokori? They FINALLY made most of the bars there off limits a couple years ago and most of them closed down. Furthermore, correct me if I am wrong but all it takes is for the USFK commander to make these places off limits and stop U.S. participation in HT is a General Order? Why has he not done this? Also, look at the financial effects on GI's for going to these places. You get an 18 year old guy who has never been away from home and you stick him in Korea he is lonely and the girls manipulate that. He spends all of his time and money in these places when really he should be out in healthier pursuits.

Just my two cents worth.