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I started ranting about this in another area, but it needs a new thread here.
Far be it from me to outguess the Army and AF leaders on the Peninsula with my ideas, although my experience includes being one of those underage troops back before most all of you were born. Yep. That is true.

When I first came to Osan, I was 18. Off base was a real challenge. Going out in the 'Ville was like a foreign country. The only signs in English were the names of the Bars. Pappa Joe's Downbeat, Paradise Club, and a "Toiler Shop".
The "Toiler Shop" could make you a suit in two days. The clubs could make you a man, I guess, if you drank alcohol. Here is the hard part to believe.
We had better discipline in the military in those days! At eighteen, I would have lost my one hard-earned stripe in a micro-second had I been seen in a bar! So I busied myself with other things. We had good food on base. I read some books at the library, and found that I could sign out a shotgun from Special Services Supply and go pheasant hunting in season! The train was free, and you didn't need English- just get on and when you see a likely hunting area, get off at the next stop. But when I got hungry, raw pheasant was not an option. I had to read Korean and speak enough to get a piece of pound cake and a chil-sung soda (like 7-Up). Soon I was at the education center in the evenings going -가, 나, 다 , 라, etc. I got a Korean man to teach me some more, and I learned some nasty low class words from the Korean cooks at the chow hall! I bought a Petri camera and learned the names on the "Kimchi Buses" (so called because passengers had garlic breath. Some things never change. Ever ride the subway? ) Soon I was riding far and near. It took me a long time to like rice. But when you have a couple of pheasants in your hand, I found it easy to make friends! And get free rice!
Once I got a free hotel room and a Circus Ticket!
My solution for the under 21 crowd? There are a hundred hobbies and fun things to do besides going to a bar! Yes, that includes girls. Believe it or not-Bars are NOT the ideal place to meet girls! The key factor- self discipline- the ability to ignore peer pressure, and good old fashioned Military Discipline!
Let's make this the most popular thread on the forum! Tell me how you would solve the problem of what to do with the underage Squid, Soldier or Airperson?

I like your challange. I think that part of the resolution is education on Language, customs & history (good & bad). The other thing is that there must be leadership involved the do as I say not as I do mentality will not work. I know the most meaninful time I spent was at the orphange. It was a real reality check and it happened because the 1SG wanted to show us that there was more than just the bars. It will not work for all as some just dont want that kind of stuff but for others it can be a highlight of the tour.

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Just my humble opinion!

I agree! Bars aren't a good place to meet someone for a relationship either. Change in organizational mentally is perhaps the quintessential piece of the puzzle to manage. One's own motivation is the key. It's sometimes simple and other times its appears that it's not an issue. Just find a 91X (or whatever the new # is now) who has chem dep training ask them how dificult it is to get someone to admit they have a problem. Denial to many is still a river in Egypt. Maybe before any SM enters ROK they should have a place to attend a small session on the positive of the ROK and off-duty activities. Tours, TKD, Hapkido, shopping, dining, cultural events, education, clubs, and so on. There's enough stuff to keep one busy that's for sure! Maybe attempt what certain fortune 500 companies have done, a mentor to get through the first 60-90 days. Include wekly meetings, active problem solving, get a feel for what's going on.

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BOOM, BOOM. Out goes the Lights

That would be great but the units want to get the lower enlisted and put them right to work as on a 1 year tour they only get them for about a total of 10 months. The Mentor you mention is called a sponsor. They do not do a good job with the younger enlisted on that as a matter of fact only senior NCO's E8 & E9 and most officers get a real sponsorship and all the officers get to go to DLI (Defense Language Institute) which gives them the culture and language background they need. The young enlisted are on their own and until we make it a mininum 2 year tour and provide sponsership for all there will not be many changes.

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Just my humble opinion!

Parisok;

I have not seen any stats on the issue; however, I believe most soldiers are taking advantage of the tour extensions program. It is a lucrative program that is very difficult to pass up. I do not have the amounts they are paid old soldiers as yourself would have really appreciated the incentive.

This really wouldn't take up too much time per week. Sponsor isn't really a mentor in what I had in mind, but I see your point here. The pre-ROK seminar for a lack of a better phrase, would occur at a military base prior to actually departing for the ROK. I had to be at St. Louis twice after may 30 days leave and had to take a military flight out (contrated with some civilian airline) prior to leaving for ROK. Anyway say you had to report for your flight by 2000 hours on 5/5/06. Instead of boarding the flight, you would have to take two days of breifing/seminars, whatever label fits here to receive the culture and history info. Then on the plane to the ROK. After the inprocessing stuff the mentor would come into play. I hear ya when you say that they do not do a good job and I highly doubt if there's any formal training to this (I may be standing corrected on this point) say at least 40 hours. The newbie still works, but meets weekly with the mentor officially for 1-2 hours. The mentor would also be a POC for assistance, whatever. I'm recalling that Germany made everyone take a week long language with some cultural aspects mixed in the lesson. That had to be done w/i thefirst 60 days and was held on base. Rank does have its privleges that for sure. Not a well thought out plan for E-1+. The only trouble in trying to implement this kind of program is that the top level doesn't believe it's a problem. Blinders if you will. Tons of paperwork, surveys, studies, etc. that is meant to wear down any efforts to the current mind set. Timing also important. If FOX or CNN would air some of the stories on the forum more attention would be given to the education/training aspect instead of the reactive policies. I'll get off my political soapbox here.

Two years wouldn't be so bad depending on the assignment. Aren't there any language/culture/etc classes available? MWR offered the stuff for free, except the language, that was through U of Maryland or find a Korean who would teach you more than what s/he believed all GI's wanted to hear when I was there. Hopeful this is still the case? Frustration, present and acount for! Hang in there young man!! Try looking at this as what can be managed and what can't be managed. Just keep that little reminder in the back of the head. Managed v. unmanaged. It makes a difference once it catches on. It may not change the issue, but helps decrease the frustration that's for sure.

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BOOM, BOOM. Out goes the Lights

Believe it or not they are doing it for the Junior enlisted now. Espically in 2ID land. I got here on July 8th 2005 and spent my time inprocessing at Camp casey for a total of 11 days.

You do your normal inprocessing but a full day or 2 is dedicated to the Korean culture. We started off with a tour of a downtown shopping center (the theme for that was watching Koreans in there own enviroment) Then we went down to a authentic Korean Buffet and we were talked to about how the food is prepared and served, that was about 3 hrs. Then we went to the observation station on the North Korean Border (cannot remember the name) spent a few hrs there, also watched the Korean dancers on film there.

We also had language classes during inprocessing, tour information and a few other things.

By the time i was done inprocessing Camp Casey and down here at Camp Humphreys it was well over a month.

A new 2 ID policy now is that if you are "new" to Korea you cannot go down town for 30 days.

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CH-47 SI

They must find it difficult...

Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. --Gerald Massey

That's good news! Any other command/area doing this? Also is there a link or something for the 2ID language course material? I'm interested in seeing what it's like. I presuming it's the bare basics, which is a good thing.

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BOOM, BOOM. Out goes the Lights

Yongsan has about 3 days of orientation that includes dependents, also. It is not "Mandatory" however, and if it is, then some enforcement is necessary, because not all newbies show up! I think some supervisors may over-look or over-ride the notice to send their new folks. It includes talks on what is available on Post, Hobby Shops, Education, etc. a subway trip and shopping trip- lunch at a big restaurant, how to count korean money, and more. You can't say Area II doesn't try!

My personal thing is that I think it should be mandatory that the UNDER 21 TROOPs must attend the orientation. And their gaining unit should not be able to interfere.

A Mentor is indeed more than a sponsor. Kids should have a phone number to call anytime, and a KNOWLEDGABLE PERSON TO CONTACT. Falling in with the village-running group in the Dorm shouldn't happen until they have at least been warned of the possible consequences. Thirty days imprisoned on Post at the Hump? That is a Military Executive Decision that I would expect from an officer that is trying to reduce off base incidents to make his own record look good without considering the cost to the morale of the young troops! I can't express my personal feelings here about the lack of adult leadership I have seen in the Army. I really can't.

24 /yo I'd move it to and add regardless of age anyone who never served in the ROK. Consequences, some never learn. Trip to the grocery store for a bottle of 'comabat' soju, give a bar maid a few $$$ to go to the pharmacy to get codiene, oxycodone, what not and secretively praying not to get selected for a drug screen whe standing in formation hung-over or high. The poor man's version of te small business owner-the black marketeer, and the joker in charge of issuing passes (where applicable) all know better. So did the 1SG in Yongsan, and the b/f g/f in Humphreys. They all knew better and still messed up. It is the 'It won't happen to me' syndrome. I almost think that it's a screening tool for some recruiters. I could see how this could play out: "Hey! you wat to enlist?" "Once your finished with your training and shipped to your duty station you can act a fool!" Blah, Blah, Blah. "However, if you're assigned to the ROK, yu can act ignorant all you want". Speaking of Army leadership, a few years ago I sat in a management class with a few 0-4 ad 0-3. One definately fit your catagory alright. Head of the loal ROTC program bucking for recognition and a chance to regain a command post. Don't know how many 0-4 command positions the Army has available, but he was a self-centered so-n-so. His claim to fame was that his father was a lawyer and that's why he was good at being an Army officer. Somehow I think he missed the logic train on more than one occasion. Fair, firm and consistant must now only apply to supermodels skin these days.

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BOOM, BOOM. Out goes the Lights