Lets use the old standard of age. Its used all over the world on who is mature enough to vote, drive, drink, etc.. Do you think this rank thing would fly if it was used in the civilian sector? No, there would be lawsuits. It doenst matter what rank a person is, they will all get in trouble. Its just matter of stats. You will have higher ranking people getting in trouble which they will accept, but they are willing to accept that because.....they are higher ranking and dont want to take away any of their privilages. OMG, how do we cope with all those 18 yr old GI's running rampant in the states. Lets have a curfew in the states too. Lets use the rank thing here, and curb incidents that happen here. Doesnt a curfew in the states sound silly? So why overseas?

Based on your logic...a group of ten Chiefs will get into just as much or more trouble as a group of ten E-2 Airmen?

Yes,

What you fail to realize is that your rank is not directly proportional to your level of maturity.

Your question should be..."Would 10 E-9's be capable under the same circumstances and all things equal to act in the same manner as 10 E-2's?"

I say yes....

Would they get into as much "trouble"...probably not? I have seen 2 E9's drink and drive, get pulled over and let go. I've seen a Transit Alert E9 get a DUI and get nothing more than a slap on the wrist and "asked" to drop paperwork.

Last time I checked no SNCO PME taught maturity classes. What you need to realize is that more comes into play than RANK, when dealing with maturity or the propensity to do wrong. Social upbringing and morals play a larger part than any amount of rank in what one does or does not do.

If you would like to debate this fact I would be more than happy.

Please don't take it that I think there is no relation between the two. I would say the majority of lower ranks are younger and thus maybe not a wise as their older counterparts. Yet you can not stereotype all lower ranks as being the "problem." It's probably impossible for a commanders support staff to manage a program to allow fair and equal treatment when it comes to curfews.

A curfew makes the off base populace happy, because the locals probably see the drunkin GI's and want us off the streets as soon as our pockets are empty. It keeps everyone that sits high happy.
You and I suck it up because we are only normally here for a year, so we just say F it.
Is it right? No, can it change? Yes. Will it change? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

It's right up there with the driving thing, since when did having E7 or a degree make you a good driver? I thoughts that's why a paid for advanced motorcycle riders course and the Skip Barber driving school...guess I was wrong.

__________________
Dale

"When you question nothing, nothing is all you have!"
http://myspace.com/zerodaydale

-Me at the track 10.9 @ 132 25 shot of nAWZZZ
-05 GSXR/PCIII with custom tune/NX Dry nitrous/dropped 4"/lots more

You're right...perhaps it would be better to run the military based on age. The oldest person in the unit is the commander, second oldest is the deputy commander, and so on. There would be no officer or enlisted ranks ~ everyone would just wear a patch indicating their date of birth and the 'rank structure' would be based on dates of birth.

I'm sure things would work much better this way!!!

Wouldn't that be a wonderful world...a world where intelligence was directly proportional to age. Make it so number 1.

__________________
Dale

"When you question nothing, nothing is all you have!"
http://myspace.com/zerodaydale

-Me at the track 10.9 @ 132 25 shot of nAWZZZ
-05 GSXR/PCIII with custom tune/NX Dry nitrous/dropped 4"/lots more

What if we just set up a couple of ruling groups; maybe call them the House, made up of really Senior NCOs, and the Senate, a group of really Senior Officers, and let them run and fund the entire Military Complex?

Then we could pick a Senior Senator who was elected by former illegal aliens from south of the border, and maybe a young Harvard graduate who has been influenced by an anti-white pastor for 20 years, and perhaps the wife of Monica Lewinski's boyfriend, to be candidates for Commander-in Chief?

God bless America! Are you sure Seniority or experience helps keep us out of trouble?

LOL, thats good! So maybe a former Governor can be in charge of security? Like making sure prostitution is monitored? I think everyones point of rank, is not a very good point. No matter how high up you are, you just fall further. I bet there has been a lot of very very low ranking people doing the whistleblowing on the high ranking officials/officers. Remember that SP in Osan, officer type, that had a racket going with prostitution and racketeering? Here is the best one and will always be the best example. Google the name "Fiscus", and see what this top lawyer in the AF did. By the way, when i was at kunsan not long ago, our CC told us every weekend about another officer that got a DUI. We would never know. We WOULD know if an enlisted person got one, and I'm sure we would all pay for it.

Mel- remember Mav88 said he might go to Alaska the last time we heard from him. Now there's a guy who might fit right in in Washington politics... Keep your eyes open!

Yep, knew Mav personally. Its sad when someone thinks they are doing the right thing, but gets burned for it. And burned by his own people. Oh well, I guess our force protection was a secret.

Very Interesting. During my years in the ROK, I witnessed many senior people committing just as many stupid acts when they had been drinking as the younger ones. It is a military way of life though and rank does have its privilidges. I would add that rank has its responsibility, as we all know. General Bell is a smart fellow and I would venture to guess that if the curfew gets extended or eliminated for the higher ranks that he will also make any punishments or reprisals much harsher for that group should they violate this trust. So, give the higher ranks their priviledge but hold them to a higher standard, (as it should be), and sock it to them if they commit stupid drunken acts while enjoying this priviledge. IMHO. Cheers!

__________________
Turk Quid Pro Quo