Best salute I've seen...
I was in the bathroom and saw an enlisted ROK walk up to a urinal, notice thed ROKAF officer at the urinal next to him, saluted the peeing officer, and then proceeded to begin peeing himself.
Now I know why the US doesn't salute inside.

__________________
Hook 'em
Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs

Interesting... I've only witnessed the complete opposite of what mike has been describing. Every morning I see ROK officers walking down 8th Army Drive and the enlisted US soldiers and NCO's just walk right past them like they didn't exist. Hell, even those high school JROTC cadets could care less. Then I see a group of KATUSA's always saluting the US officers.

Everyday I work with ROKAF and have a great friendship with a ROK 2nd LT. They work just as hard and I have found that many attempt to learn enough english to accomplish the mission. I think you are all being a little anal over the whole saluting thing. Sure discipline and rendering the proper curtousy are important but if you ask a enlisted ROK to salute US officers you would have to ask them to salute US enlisted of higher ranks as well. You mention that they salute indoors and salute everyone because it is a form of respect to a superior. In the Korean military it is not uncommon for a junior grade officer to salute a senior enlisted. Their rank may not be as high but as a show of respect the senior is saluted. This is why I believe the ROK's do not render salutes to US officers because to them a e5 equivalent to any junior grade officers and no salute is needed. Believe me when I say they are not being disobedient when they do not salute US officers it is just easier and fair for both parties if they dont.

Your statement of those who are a being a little anal is not appreciated. OTH your User name, really reflects where you are coming from :-)

I guess I am not tracking with you when you state if "ask" ROK enlisted to salute US Officers you would have to ask them to salute enlisted ranks of higher rank as well.


In the Korean military it is not uncommon for a junior grade officer to salute a senior enlisted. Their rank may not be as high but as a show of respect the senior is saluted

This stems from Confucius philosophy. This philosophy is also waning bc of the younger generation in Korea believes change is required. The change does not necessarily have to be for the better, just change!

I believe several of the exchanges of the salute are out of fear from disciplinary actions. If you have spent anytime in Korea and listened to some of the larger scale abuses they are subject to you would have a better understanding of what I am referring to. If you ask some of the KATUSA’s of the abuses from ROK officers you would also have a better understanding before you claim others are being “a little anal”

BTW: You only hear about the abuses that are in the media.

I have found that many attempt to learn enough English to accomplish the mission.

I am not sure where this came from. Where is the correlation between the salute and language? I am not sure I read a post where anyone was critical of potential language barriers.

because to them a e5 equivalent to any junior grade officers and no salute is needed.

This is could not be much far from the truth. The ROK promotion system is very quick the first couple years. I do not believe you can move from a PVT to an E-5 in 16-18 months in the US Army. The average age for a ROK junior enlisted is the almost the same for the US Army. The KATUSA may also have between 2-3 years of college. The US Army officers have already graduated from college.

Anyone who violates the law is being disobedient. When you are driving and the speed limit is 65 and you are doing 75 since it is okay to go the 10 MPH over the speed limit <g> you are being disobedient. There is a regulation that covers saluting and it should be enforced. I have always looked at it from saluting the perspective of saluting the rank and not the individual wearing it.

The salute is a time honored tradition that needs to remain in place to maintain discipline. If you begin to remove some of this discipline what will happen when you have to make some decisions under difficult conditions.

I suspect you are a young officer. I hope you will take the time to study military tradition and lessons learned. Discipline is not a vogue term it is what the soldiers rely on to get them through the toughest of times.

My point is simple. I have dealt with many countries throughout my career and the ROK military are the only ones I have had this problem with. I don't buy the seniority deal. For instance, I have to utmost respect for our chief master sergeants in the Air Force. They are the cream of the crop in the enlisted ranks and deserve respect, status and privileges that many officers don't get (i.e. parking spots). BUT they will still salute a 2LT and in some cases take orders from them.

I will share my CMSGT story with the group. My first assignment as an officer was a hard luck assignment to Pearl, Harbor Hawaii. It was tough assignment, but I went anyway. Well, at my desk on day I continued to hear a 2LT call a Chief sergeant. “Sergeant, do you know ....blah, balh." After this happened a third time, I finally said, "He might just do those things for you if you would call him Chief or Chief Master Sergeant." The 2LT was a little embarrassed and agreed. Five minutes later, the chief came up to me and presented a Chiefs coin to me and thanked me. This is one of the ONLY coins I keep!

I don't know what the big deal is with saluting. The officer is still saluting the enlisted! It is just that the enlisted salutes first. Respect is still going both ways and if people have a problem with that, then they have a problem with authority in many cases. Again, I have had ROKs salute me, so it shows that they know the proper customs and courtesies. When I was a LT, I had Chiefs call me sir. Being prior enlisted it felt very weird! I have NEVER not had a Chief call me sir or by my rank. If or chiefs can show the proper respects to 2LTs, then the average Korean can show the respect to U.S. officers. Let’s not forget that the US and Korean have one of the closest relationships out of any other ally.

Mike

__________________
YesAsia.com Ebay Store!

Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!

If or chiefs can show the proper respects to 2LTs, then the average Korean can show the respect to U.S. officers.

Mike;

I may have misread you response; however, this sounds a little arrogant. I agree with saluting; however, respect is earned, not given. It is not a them Vs Us situation. It really needs to be kept in proper perspective. You are saluting the rank the individual. There are excellent NCO's in all branches of the military. I had the unfortunate experiencing of working with some of the officers who were very arrogant based on the virtue of their rank. If you looked close enough you could see they were hiding behind their rank. The salute should not be a personal issue, rather military discipline.

Please point out were I said enlisted will respect all officers? I believe the post I presented showed that I believe you are saluting the rank, not the person. An officer can only earn respect when he or she proves they deserve it.

Mike

__________________
YesAsia.com Ebay Store!

Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!

then the average Korean can show the respect to U.S. officers

As I stated I may have misread your response. Your statement "average Korean" is what I have a problem with. The average Korean is not a soldier. Should we say the average American should salute U.S. officers. As i continue to state the salute is what sets the military apart from the civilian sector. If this is a common practice then the COC should be addressing the issue. OTH It appears the PT uniform was a priority <g> Please disregard the sardonic comment.

Yep, you misread my statement. Nowhere in my thread was I talking about the average Korean. When I say average Korean I am talking about the average Korean soldier. I don't expect any civilians to have respect for soldiers. That will be based on their family’s way of life and upbringing. BUT soldiers are taught to at least respect the rank.

Mike

__________________
YesAsia.com Ebay Store!

Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!

It appears your experience with the ROK Air Force is a little different than mine with the ROK Army. I have had to go to ROK compounds for various reasons and I always saluted ROK officers and the ROK soldiers in turn saluted the US officers. It is a mutual respect thing. If someone doesn't salute the other I can understand how one side would tell their soldiers to stop saluting. When US soldiers see their leaders saluting the ROK officers they will do the same. If US soldiers are not saluting ROK officers it is because their leaders aren't doing it either.

As far as KATUSA discipline is concerned, it is very dependent on the ROKA Sergeant Major in charge of the battalion. Great sergeant majors instill discipline even in the most spoiled rich kids. I have seen ROKA sergeant majors send KATUSA's to ROK Army jail for bad discipline. However, the US soldiers need to show the proper respect towards KATUSAs and the Sergeant Major in turn. I always correct soldiers for example if they did not go to parade rest for the ROKA sergeant major or say yes, sergeant to a KATUSA sergeant for example. Mutual respect is contagious and is equally as contagious if it is not enforced by both parties.