<blockquote>Like allowing felons to join, or waivering GED requirement.</blockquote>

I can't remember the details, but I've heard this and I've heard this refuted, and though I don't have links, I remember the refuted side provided more evidence.

If you have some info to back it up, I'd like to read it. I might google on it later....

The Koreans I know and work with are all entirely disgusted with this story, and they all said it has made them give every "american looking person" a second more condescending look no matter what they are doing.... I wish people (especially Soldiers) were not this fuggin' stupid!

I used to go to Hongdae almost every single weekend and never even came CLOSE to having an incident of any type. Now because of one retard who cannot control himself I am forbidden from enjoying myself and the cool things Hongdae has to offer.... pitiful.

First, on the ex-con thing, I did happen to run into a recent news item on it but it didn't clarify much.

Next, I can understand ssnapier's feeling, and I got pissed off when I saw any expat acting an ass in Korea, because I knew how it would be amplified by many of the Koreans who witnessed it too ---

--- but I wish so many expats would not instinctively give Korea credibility for their anti-US/USFK habit...

If any reasonable person were to step back a minute, they would have to admit that incidents like this are going to happen. It is an absolute given no matter who the 25,000+ individuals are - GIs, expat teachers, or priests even...

If we were to take a list of 25,000-50,000 college students from the top universities in the US and South Korea, and we were to track them over the course of a decade, how many crimes do you think we'd find? even the worst kinds of crimes?

If you examine any town of 25,000-50,000 people in South Korea or the US, and you collect data for a decade, how many crimes do you think you will find?

So - why is it natural and understandable that Koreans who read a story like this "are entirely disgusted and now give every GI looking person a condescending stare"?

Why is it so common for a significant portion of the expat community in Korea to give Korean society a pass for what is simply a type of bigotry.

Broadly speaking, I can "understand" why Koreans focus so much attention on these acts. They haven't had a lot of foreigners in country except US soldiers. They are not a highly diverse community (ethnically speaking). So, foreigners natural standout, and the majority of times (at least with white foreigners) they are happy to meet them and get to know more about them and what they think.

But, the uniqueness of the foreigner also causes Korean society to blow up individual incidents like this - especially with the US military.

I can "understand" how or why it happens.

But that understand shouldn't condone it or reenforce it.

Reply to US in Korea;
Most South Koreans do not speak, read or write English. Those that do, and have access to foreigners and their activities in Korea, are above average, in understanding and otherwise.
Yet they too,are susceptible to the Media,-the Press- the TV News; like anyone in any society, anywhere. The MEDIA causes majority opinion, as often this is the only side of the story they see.

Foreigners who come in and operate in any country are at first suspect. There must be a selfish reason they stay here. Until and unless they prove themselves by their actions as being here to help, they will be suspect. Friendship cannot be legislated, it must be earned.

Look at the North Korean man in the street. He has been raised by Kim Il Sung and now by Kim Jong Il. He "knows" that Americans started the Korean war and caused their dire predicament. He hates and fears the U.S.

Not wholly unlike the common working people in the U.S. , who see foreigners taking their manufacturing jobs out of the country! The manufacturing jobs, (Clothes, Shoes, Textiles, etc.) that have not left the

U.S. are now filled by foreigners! The common Americans scream- "Speak English" ! Pay taxes! Stop taking advantage of OUR welfare benefits!

The generation of Koreans who remember that the South Korea we see today is much better off because of Americans is now retired. The new generation of Americans must now prove themselves to the newer generations of Koreans, ALL OVER AGAIN.

Humans are necessarily cautious these days. Does a foreigner have good motives for being here? It is up to you to show by your individual efforts what kind of an individual you are. Smile, greet people in their language,
"AHN YOUNG HAH SAY YO!" Prove every day that you are not what the Media may paint you!

What bothers me having been in Korea a long time is crimes that are commited by non-US military that we never hear about. I know for a fact there are lots of incidents happening all the time, but don't we hear about them. There has to be a reason. Maybe they can get money out of US military, but not foreigners from other countries or Americans that are not military. They have a prison for foreigners in Korea at Cheonan. I have been told there are very few Americans in there.

Teachers and business people are not bound by the SOFA, and they are not (for the most part) representatives of a foreign government. I am sure that is at least part of the reason that military incidents are amplified so much.

Well, let's see. If we were in the U.S., and Billy Bob Smith smacked John Jones down at the local pub, that would only be news in our little town. It would not show up 100 miles away in the Cincinnati Enquirer.

Korea doesn't have a lot of newspapers. Just in large cities. In the large cities, if Kim Bong Ku got drunk and put Pahk Su Joon in the hospital, it wouildn't rate a story, unless Kim or Pahk were government officials or famous movie stars. Politics, graft and bigger stories overshadow small timers. But if A U.S. Army soldier, who represents a Country that is here by invitation, purportedly to HELP Korea, and should be above reproach, shows his rear on the subway, or assaults an innocent Korean citizen, it is news! It will help the bottom line:to sell newspapers!

Another factor, which most foreigners do not realize, is that Oriental Culture recognizes two kinds of people, worthy persons, and non-persons. Sort of like they say people of India recognize three classes of persons- high, low, and untouchable, or unclean. I'll leave it at that, for others to discuss, but in Korea, if you have a job that is not deemed worthy, you could be considered a non-person. Your name would not get in the paper. If you are a foreigner who came here to work in one of these jobs, your life, death or actions may not be newsworthy. An example- one of the lowest jobs is a butcher. When is the last time you saw a story about the butcher shop?
Lastly- Orientals are overly concerned with "Face". "Losing Face" or being embarrassed, often leads to suicide, as witnessed by many Japanese, and some Korean students who fail the University Examinations.
My point is that Koreans don't want to read that a Korean did any crime that could embarrass the Koreans as a whole, like maybe assaulting an American?
What newsperson wants to suffer the possible wrath? Other examples occur.

Perhaps someone will start a new thread on Cultural differences that
prevail. We can't do much more on the Assault until the soldier goes to trial.

On Mr. Joe's point about the media leading the people, I agree but also have some qualification.

I don't think it is a one-way street.

I think the media of today in Korea, like the media in the US, also reflects Korean society. It is a popular press and plays to the people as much as tries to guide them - if not more.

You can search the archives of the Korean English-language press for information about this event - or - use the new search feature at my www.usinkorea.org site (which I just did):

It concerns the firebombing of a small USFK installation in Seoul during the orgy of hate that was 2002 over the Tank Accident.

Here is a video that was shown on one of the 3 Korean network evening news casts.

The female anchor for the show said after the clip was played something like, "It's a shame to see that."

Korean viewers went ballistic.

There was an explosion of white hot heat calling her a traitor and demanding her head on a silver platter, and the news agency gave it to them the next day. End of career...

(I am guessing it was the end of her career. Maybe she has rebuilt since 2002 - but she was immediate toast back then).

That was definately 100% an example of the Korean press being led by popular reaction.

USINKOREA has done perhaps the most of any person to document the "Hate Years", which actually contained moments of anger & mob violence. It is an education to read his website of the way it was five years ago. Since then we have had a few more instances of "Yankee go home" in the country, the most recent having to do with the farmers in PyongTaek.
I guess it is time for me to say I think those days are waning. I hope I am right that the majority of Koreans are becoming better educated, and therefore more understanding of the US position here. I think that most understand that our intentions are honorable, and that everybody makes mistakes. I think the old feelings are fading out. The present Korean Government has shown to be tolerant, yet nor endeared with the USFK. But protests are dwindling. I hope we can enjoy the quiet times, and that both our governments work toward undoing the Ugly American actions that are the result of actual Ugly Americans! The US Military has made a decision to allow
troops to enlist, who normally would not be able to show their idiocy outside of the US slums where they were bred, without going to jail. The people who thought it would be a great benefit to enlist folks of lesser intelligence, some who have admitted to taking illegal drugs, and some convicted felons, have done an injustice to the Military, to America, and to foreign countries where they are showing up! We are paying a price for a stupid attempt to fill quotas. The old wars where "Cannon Fodder" was used are over. Even foot soldiers need to be trainable now, in these days of lazer guided weapons and other technical reqiurements. (I hesitate to speak of an incident I observed recently, where I saw one of these intellectually challenged soldiers attempting to reassemble his personal weapon!) It's a good thing that I believe that North Korea is presently not much of a threat, and that these retards may either get trained to be useful soldiers, or get discharged before they go to the Mid East and hurt themselves or someone else.
I discourage active duty folks and spouses from mentioning specific units or organizations if you choose to write about this subject. You could get in trouble, and we don't want that.

[This thing is riddled with typos and stupid grammar mistakes which I will clean up tomorrow, because I'm too tired to do it right now.

And just think --- I'm an English teacher!]

The post:

I think you have a shot of being right.

But first, a quick note:

But protests are dwindling

I have said from the start that counting heads at protests or the number of protests is a misguided way of judging the society's feelings toward the alliance. What bothered me much more than angry street protests has always been how pervasive the anti-US items are among average Koreans like the ones I was teaching when I first arrived.

Street protests have always been too easily dismissed by Koreans and outsiders (like the US government) as "just a radical fringe."

I started out by trying to combat that misconception fervently.

If you teach Korean adults, at least if you were teaching them in the mid to late 1990s, you can see just how deep the anti-US process reaches.

But, again - I agree with you that things might have actually been changing for the better - but it is too early to tell with any kind of confidence.

I will have to wait a few more years before I start saying that things are changing for the better, and there are several reasons for witholding judgement.

I think since I have some time and this is worth discussing, I'll try to type up what those reasons are - and it will take a series of posts, because to do them justice, I'll have to extend them.

First off:

The Turtle Phase:

I have said from day one, and had concluded by around 1998, that one part of the anti-US/USFK process is The Turtle Phase.

The brief definition is that - any time Korean society fears it is going to lose USFK as a security blanket - and/or - it fears bad international press might cause American citizens or the US government to scale back on Korean imports into the US ------ anti-US activity - even some of the biggest activity - can vanish overnight.

And one indisputable fact the last 5 years has been ---- Korea is afraid the US Defense Department is ---- looking for the exit sign.

Korean society pretty much shrugged off the first push of the Land Partnership Plan - probably for 2 reasons:

1) they had seen the government and society delay to death deals with the US they didn't like, why should this one be in different?

and

2) the SK-NK Summit flipped even conservative Koreans on their ear into a giddy state of believing peace and unification could just be around the corner. It wore off in about 6 months to a year for the conservatives, and slowly eroded over the years with the average majority.

But, in 2000, the LPP didn't really matter in part because it looked like maybe USFK wouldn't be needed soon anyway.

But, in the transitional period from 2002 to 2003, the American almost daily press coverage of the anti-US orgy that had been going on for months - was like a slap in the face.

And suddenly, some Koreans of influence (especially in the press) took serious note of the Pentagon pushing the LPP.

Then Rumsfeld announced USFK was going to downsize by 1/3rd.

That sent Korea into shock, and a reasonable argument can be made that the relative quiet we have seen the last 5 years has simply been a sign that they have not recovered from it yet.

Before what to them was a stunning revelation - that the US might actually be willing to pack up in leave, it was beyond obvious Korean society as a whole took the US alliance completely for granted.

I was amazed that Korea adults had no real present fear North Korea would ever attack. It was such a total difference from America's Cold War experience, I was highly suprised.

But, despite some saying North Korea would never attack because they were Koreans, it was clear the real reasons was the same "Mutually Assured Destruction" doctrine that prevented the US and USSR from blowing up the earth, except in the South Korean version, they had more confidence, because North Korea knew it couldn't strike directly at the US and the US could wipe the North off the face of the earth any second it felt like it.

South Koreans were also convinced the US would never want to leave Korea.

Even when I arrived in 1996, the end of the global Cold War did not phase them. I only taught adults for about my first 2 years, and they had no fear the US would take the opportunity that the end of the Cold War gave it to cut its defense budget by pulling out of South Korea.

Whether it was a more left-leaning Korean who believe the US wanted to keep Korea divided and stayed in Korea for selfish, self-serving reasons, or a right-leaning conservative who believed the US-SK alliance was a thing of steal and America would never betray Korea like that, they were convinced the US would't leave.

That changed in 2002-2003, and the fear is still fresh.

It is still fresh, because just about every month or at least every 3 months since the end of 2002, there have been clear signs that USFK might be thinking of leaving.

Or, there have been clear bad blood brewing due to the Roh administrations desire (perhaps) to see USFK leave.

We have also had recurrent, frequent brouhahas about implementing the LPP. The US side will not back down from it. It has been pressing periodically for Yongsan to move finally and pull off the DMZ and consolidate bases and downsize by 1/3rd.

This is not what Korea and Korean society is used to.

They are used to delaying plans to death and the US shrugging its shoulders and going along. That isn't happening now.

So, until I see Korean society return to some confidence that the US relationship is solid and not on thin ice, I have to question whether anti-US through is waning or just waiting.

It might not take but a couple more years to see:

Roh is leaving office after the election this year, and the conservative, pro-alliance GNP is most likley going to win the Blue House.

Donald Rumsfeld, who seems to have been the force behind preparing to leave South Korea, is gone. So, the US side might have a change of heart with a change in leadership.

Also, the US has a presidential election next year, and any changes slated for USFK are not set in stone. They have not advanced to the point where it would cost more economically and politically to reverse them than it would to go on through. In short, the next US president could easily just drop parts of the LPP and other changes.

We shall see.

It might take 3 years or so for the comfort zone feeling to return.

When it does return, I'll be watching to see if we move back to the way things were in the mid to late 1990s:

where you could expect at least one significant spike in anti-US activity every 8 to 12 months and one big dust up about every 2 to 3 years.

The form of the activity could be the press running wild and getting Koreans to talk day after day about how bad the US was for Korea - but with no significant street demonstrations beyond the usual.

Or

A spike could be large scale protests (not hundreds of thousands but a few thousand several times a month) for a month or two in which many average citizens felt like they needed to protest.

I am not sure we have not actually been seeing this happen already in 2005-today.

I believe I wrote here somewhere a year or two ago that I officially announced things had gotten back to normal.

I was probably not exactly right there.

But, it is hard for me to get a good feel for it since I'm not in Korea any more and not teaching Korean adults.

But, I will say with confidence that the environment among the masses even from 2005 to today has been better for USFK and the US in Korea than it was in the mid to late 1990s.

Is it a trend that will last?

Have the m