First of all, I apologize if this is placed incorrectly, I didn't know where exactly to place this, so I just started my own thread... :)

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Don't you sometimes just love military bureaucracy?!?!?!

Okay, backstory here.. many of you may remember that some months back, I posted a message elsewhere in this topic, asking about the presence of ENT's at Osan..the reasoning for that post is that my husband, Richard, has, for the past couple of years been having some major problems with his ears. He'd been experiencing a buzzing in his ears at loud noises, which was diagnosed as tinnunitis, and had been sent off base to a civilian doctor for treatment. During the course of the exam by the civilian doctor, it was discovered that he had mild hearing loss...given that he works in close proximity to major jet engines, not a huge surprise. What -was- surprising, however, was the rate of declination.. apparently his hearing was growing worse rapidly, -despite- wearing the mandatory two forms of hearing protection. This was referred back to his doctor on base, but, at that point, it was a concern, but nothing apparently that the military felt like they needed to act upon. In mid July, Richard had a follow up appointment with his ENT downtown, and this time, his hearing tested worse, having lost 15-20 decibels of hearing in both ears.. prompting the civilian ENT, who was -very- concerned at this point,and who is attributing the hearing loss -to- the heavy exposure to the engines as there seems to be no other apparent cause, to send Richard back to our PCM on base. Of course, the PCM who had handled Richard's case before and knew what was going on, had just pcs'd out, so we get sent to a PA who not only has no idea what he's dealing with but also has the attitude, from the very outset of "So, what do you want -me- to do about it?" (we later discovered that this particular PA has had -many- complaints filed about him for not adequately working with health issues with airmen in his care.) Richard ends up getting in to see the OSHA doctor on base, who looks at his file, and notes that yes, there's a significant loss, but not in the "right frequencies" for the AF to be concerned. (His hearing loss is in the lower range, used more for music, etc.. rather than the higher ranges used for speaking,etc.. another reason why the civilian ENT is saying it's noise from the jets, most hearing loss due to things like playing music too loud,etc, is in the higher ranges..)

So, at this point, we're feeling basically thrown to the wolves, as the AF is apparently not going to do anything (such as crosstraining,etc) to help Richard with his hearing loss...and have pretty much come to the decision that after this enlistment, we're out of the military,as virtually every career possibility that Richard has -after- military service is heavily dependent upon hearing... he's a sound technician, for heaven's sake,and is looking at going into something in the realm of ministry, or going into the whole troops -to- teachers thing. Sooo.. we either stay in the military and give up all hope of him having a career in the -future-, or get out before he goes deaf, and try to build something in the future. A no-brainer, for the most part, though certainly in this day and age where the economy is so insecure, it's certainly a gamble.

Now, here's where the confusion comes in.. last Friday, he gets an email from Public Health saying that a communication has come down from a colonel at a major medical base saying that they want Richard to get his ears tested ASAP at a military installation *before* we PCS. Nice to find out now that we're around 6 weeks from our final out day here :) The PHA office puts in the request for the referral,and we check tricare yesterday only to find out that the referral isn't to the requested -military- ENT , but to another civilian ENT. Richard calls tricare, and tricare tells him that the referral wasn't issued to the ENTS at the nearby army base, because all the ENTs there are currently deployed. Sooo... he asks about the ENT offices at an Army base a little bit further away, but within driveable distance.. but apparently, there's the same issue there, the ENTs are deployed. He calls the public health office rep back , tells her what's going on,and now we're waiting to hear from her what the major base wants to do.. send him to the civilian doctor given the time crunch or whatever.

So, now that the vent part is done here.. a serious question, to anyone who might have experienced something like this, or who might have a little knowledge of how things like this work... (and no, I'm not posting this on the official AF spouse board, because quite frankly , I trust you guys more to give me better info. :) ) I know that there's no way for anyone to predict the way the minds of the powers that be may work..but.. does it sound like the whole wanting my husband to see an ENT at a military facility sound like they may be considering doing something "officially" with him, at this point? If not, what might we be looking at here? If they won't accept the referral to the 2nd civilian doctor, will they possibly delay our rnltd to get Richard into the military doctor?

I'm at a loss here..and at the top of the rollercoaster..once again.

Dee

Sounds like they are making sure he is medically qualified to PCS.

Dee, I have been in the military for 13 years now. The problem you are dealing with can be attributed to socialized medicine in the military. You will ALWAYS get better service off base. People working on U.S. military medical facilities get paid regardless of the service they provide. Don’t get me wrong, there are some outstanding medical personnel out there, but that is due to personality and not because they have to.

When you take out the capitalistic part of health care you create a culture of “who cares.” This is what happened with that PA.

Here is my example. I had some medical problems so I scheduled an appointment with my primary doctor. After being seen, I had a few follow on appointments with other areas of the hospital. I was told, “You will get a call within 7 days for your next appointments.” It took over 6 weeks of me calling 5 times a week to finally get these appointments. I NEVER received a call. The folks working in the other areas of the hospital get paid regardless. That is what you get in a socialized hospital.

A few weeks ago I was referred off base for a dental treatment. They took care of me, called the next day to make sure I was ok, and scheduled follow on appointments. I got 5-6 calls from them to schedule future appointments and to make sure I was feeling alright. You will get great service when you pay cash. They want you back and they know they don’t get paid if you don’t show up. In the military, I always get the feeling I am a pain in the medical technicians butt for showing up. He gets paid the same if he sees 100 people or none. I am sure he would prefer none.

This is rampart throughout the military, mostly in support functions like MPF, finance and medical. Personality drive service as there is little incentive to provide great service.

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Dee, sounds like they want to help and have everything medically documented in his records when he gets out.

Now for the hearing side of the house, I am also going through the same situation. My hearing has gone WAY down since i've been flying Chinooks, 1800+ flt hrs will do that. To the point where i need a waiver to fly. My hearing loss is in the 2k-3k range.

Now on the good side they have all the latest technology here at Yongsan, I have my APPT. on the 30th of AUG to go in for speech/hearing consult. They will be hooking electroids (SP) to my head and run a series of test. They will be checking to see if it may be a problem with my nerves that run down my spinal cord being pinched, which may cause my hearing to be degraded. I also have the constant ringing in my ears, but that can also be caused by what I mentioned above. They will also be running other tests while I am there to do the full analysis.

What I would do is call the people back and tell them that they have all the equipment to do the COMPLETE hearing test/consult in Yongsan and that is where you will continue with the follow up's. Again, don't ask them tell them and give the reason "WHY" because you are so close to leaving and they have everything where you are going.

You can even make an APPT if you would like, here is the phone # 736-4099

There is no back up for appt's either. They called me and said come in tomorrow, but I asked for the 30th to coinside with an APPT with my wife up in Yongsan.

Hope this helps Dee, Tell Richard I fell his pain (becasue I can't hear either)

PM me and tell me how you and Richard are doing. See you soon at Chilies.

Chuck

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CH-47 SI

They must find it difficult...

Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. --Gerald Massey

I worked on and around running jet engines for 28 years and tinnitus and some hearing loss are unfortunate side effects of the trade. Typically, in the past, if there was a troop with a hearing associated problem, they were relocated away from the flightline, engine test cell or any other high noise environment into a back shop or tool crib. Except during the 'down sizing' times, things like this could send up a flag to the powers looking to trim manpower from the force and send a guy out the door. Most likely, a flag was raised here due to your impending PCS, especially if he was going to fill a slot that still kept him in a high noise environment. There are some jobs where the primary work is only in the flightline area, more so now than in the past with the trimming away of so many back shop areas. The bottom line use to be if a guy had a hearing problem but wanted to keep in the force, there were usually plenty of jobs he could do out of the noise area and still finish a career. Depends a lot on the current chain of command and the attitude of 'we take care of our own'. If he has been ordered to have another test, assessment of his condition before he is allowed to PCS, and there are no qualified people to perform it locally, then they must either pay travel and perdiem to send him somewhere where the test can be done , or, postpone or cancel his orders until his condition can be diagnosed.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

Mike,

I couldn't disagree with you more concerning the statement that "you will always get better treatment off base." I was a recruiter for a few years and had to live off the economy and I PROMISE you that the health care system in the civilian world is no better, and many times WORSE than what we have in the AF. I've compared my care now to what I could have received in the civilian sector, and what my family has received over the years and there is no comparison...we are better off than they are. If you think that the grass is greener on the other side, it's only because of the load of crap that they have heaped on the civilians to make them think that they are getting better care. The civilian sector has socialized medicine more than we do. They call it "insurance" and "managed care plans" but it's all about money and has absolutely nothing to do with providing health care to their patients. Trust me, if you don't have a $, you will not receive anything more than what is absolutely necessary to keep you alive enough to shove you out the door.
To top that off, there has been a major shift in the past 10 years or so in the recruitment of doctors and nurses in the AF to people that are way more qualified than what they used to be. In fact, in specialties like ENT, they are usually required to have had their own successful practice before coming into the AF.
Now, I'm not saying that everything is perfect, because it's obviously not. I hate tricare just like everyone else, but it's no different than any other health care management system out there.
As far as Dee's concern, I would guess that it's all part of the medical clearance that has to be accomplished prior to a PCS overseas. I wouldn't really worry about it too much. The time crunch thing sucks, but that's just part of PCSing.
Anyway, the wife has dishes for me to clean, so I'm out.

Joe

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

Not always true Turk, If you go to the Dr. who wants to have his hearing test done before he PCS's and go to him with knowledge that there is the capability as good or better than where he is now then there is a chance the COL will say O.K. You never know until you ask.

As for the per-deim, if it is with 150 miles of his current duty station then they will have to suck up the money for gas,hotel and meals. I know this from experience. I had to send my son to B'Ham, Alabama. Tri-care wanted the zip code for the hospital and it was 147 miles from from my duty station. They said sorry suck all the expenses up....

Now, I don't know about the AF world but I've seen that instance happen in the Army a few times and it works for the good.

We do have the ability here in Korea to do hearing tests as in-depth as anyone in the states on-post or off.

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CH-47 SI

They must find it difficult...

Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. --Gerald Massey

Chuck,

They may have the ability to do itin Korea, but if it's part of the medical clearance for overseas PCS, then he won't even make it over there until this is resolved one way or another.

Dee,

What will probably happen is that they will clear him to PCS and refer him to have it looked at again in Korea. Also, Be VERY WARY of civilian docs who seem way more concerned than the military ones. If you honestly think that ENT really gives a flying f&%k at a rolling donut about anything other than his boat payment, then you are being niave...and I know you're not that :-) Civilian docs pay the bills by charging for services. Those nice offices, secretaries, receptionists, nurses, and RAs don't work for free (not to mention all of those medical classes). They work for referals from the military and they will milk it for everything they can. Do I seem a little cynical about the civilian medical care? Well...I'm not. I just lived too long on the other side and it really gets me when people assume that the military health care sucks just because we aren't paying for it. Anyway, that's enough of MY rants about health care in general. The GOOD news is that all of this will be in his records for future VA benefits...gotta take what you can get!

Joe

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

Joe your are right, but if they have a follow up and the correct facilities in Korea and the Dr. does not know what they have in Korea (and it is very possible since some Dr's come into the Army as a LTC) just talking to he Dr. and letting him know maybe all he needs to continue to Korea and then follow up over here.

Like I said never hurt to ask???

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CH-47 SI

They must find it difficult...

Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. --Gerald Massey

Of course they have the capability at Osan to do hearing tests, I have had many there. This is a case of job requirements and what position number he will be filling in his new unit. Whenever anyone is flagged in the medical system as having a hearing problem, and their normal duties are in a high noise environment, the normal practice is to immediately move them to a job out of the noise environment until the hearing problem is diagnosed as permanent or temporary or something like tinnitus which is permanent but comes and goes in most people. If a troop is set to PCS and the new job is in a high noise area, and before they leave, they are flagged as possibly having a hearing problem, they will normally be required to retest and if the problem remains it will probably keep them from PCSing unless waivered. A waiver in a case like this would be unlikely. People who work in high noise areas are required to get hearing tests annualy so problems are usually routinely found. Once they are found I couldn't say for sure they all get follow up and correct treatment, that depends on where you are at and the quality of the care, like anything, I guess.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo