Ghost I agree with your point 100%. I would not want a bunch of lazy dudes coming into the military. I want young, fresh recruits with a "can do" attitude.

My basic point is that we have millions of able bodied Americans that have come to rely on government services. I have been told that they have no other option and I am pointing out that there is the military option. They choose not to go into the military, and like you, I am grateful they are not in.

I suggest someone do a test. The next time you see a homeless person on the street asking for money, pull over and tell him the you have a yard that needs mowing and you will give him $20 an hour twice a week to do it. See what the response is. In most cases he will tell you wher you can put that $20.

Also, the next time you hear an unemployment figure in your area, grab the local paper and read the "help wanted" section. You will most likely notice 10+ pages of help wanted ads.

The truth is some people have the attitude, "why work when I can scam the government or I can get $40 a day hanging out by a busy intersection asking for money."

I am NOT saying everyone unemployed or homeless are like this. There are a lot of people that need help and I would be the first to step in a support someone in need. BUT in my experience there are too many people out their abusing the system and living the good life while millions of Americans bust their hump, then get 20% taken out of their paycheck to support an inefficient social service program. Again, 80% of welfare costs are spent on administration costs. Not something I support!

__________________
Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!

Of course a bum on the street would rather stay on the street than get a real job and contribute to society. That is what is easier. There are a ton of jobs out there that require no skills and no experience, but the American mentality is that, "I am too good to flip burgers, or clean up trash, whatever." And honestly, why would they? They can make way more money staying on welfare than getting a job in this country! Believe me when I say that businesses aren't hurting from this American-laziness, oh no, there are 20-30 million illegal immigrants in this country that would love the oppurtunity to work those jobs. There is no incentive for these people to get off their asses and find real work. Until the government realizes, which I think they do, and revampts the welfare program (again) we will continue to see this trend on through eternity. Individuals are not being held responsible AT ALL LEVELS, from the bum on the street corner, to the rooms of the White House, everyone knows that America is facing a social epidemic, but still no one wants to tackle the real issue: drastically reduce the amount of welfare recipents. Certain individuals with disabilities and extreme hardships should of course remain in the program, but if you have two arms, two legs, a decent IQ you should be working. Even state-run programs such as trash-collection, very minor administrative work, anything to instill a sense of involvement in these people which may begin to make them ask themselves, "since I am already out here, can I do better?" Nothing should ever be given to someone for free and that is exactly what welfare does. I understand that people make poor decisions and life doesn't always work out the way someone invisioned it would, but that is no excuse to leech off of every other hard-working American. --- It's funny how politicians are scared to say something like what I just said for fear of losing voters, but I really wonder how many of the people this type of thing effects actually get off their fat asses (yes, all people on welfare are fat) and vote in the elections. They don't, but the media has such a field day making everyone think that they do/will that the truth will never get said. Again, all because of "politically correct culturally sensativitness," disgusting....

-Ghost

__________________
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge. -Henry David Thoreau

Knowledge is power.

Mike, you have a tendency to use a lot of words to say nothing at all. Simply put, you said you grew up poor and your Mom worked her way out of poverty. Since she did, others can too. I simply called you on your bullshit and your response is that I can't say anything about your life, yet you do not elucidate what I don't know. Unless your mother is an extremely rare case, she had help getting out of poverty, either from family, friends or, most likely, the government. If that's not the case, then correct me. Don't admonish me for following up on something you brought up in the first place.

You're trying to deny other services by spouting all the same half-truths and down right lies that have been spread before. You don't seem to even understand that there have been reforms to welfare in the last ten years or what people have to do in order to qualify for welfare, or even the different forms of welfare the government hands out. In fact, you don't even seem to understand the basic reality of the poor. It's a life where there is a high price for mistakes. It's a life where you start to make headway out of poverty and something, usually out of your power, strikes you back down. It's a life where the only consistant safety-net is the government, and that isn't even always so consistant.

Well this argument is getting nowhere. What seems to be lost is that both sides seem to think this is a zero-sum game. It isn't. The only reason these two issues (minimum wage and death tax) are being tied together is politics. And guess what? That's how things get done in America. Republicans looked bad for killing a minimum wage increase earlier this year, so now they're tying a cut on the death tax onto a minimum wage bill to make it more in line with their own platform. Sure it's politics, but it's also compromise. The Democrats will spin it one way and the Republicans will counter-spin the other way. In my opinion, the minimum wage hasn't been raised in ten years and needs a bump. An ease on estate taxes doesn't allow the rich to make more money, just to keep more of the money they already earned. Sounds like a productive compromise to me. The only real issue now is who gets to take credit for it.

__________________
Hook 'em
Bear


Texas Longhorns
2005 College World Series Champs
2005 NCAA Football Champs

Why is your life off limits, Mike. You talk about all the people who are on government assistance, but why is your life off limits? Others have made generalizations (all people on welfare are fat) that apply to many people, but your experiences are unquestionable. Why is that we can discuss and judge other people, poor people, but you get up in arms when you may be judged?

As I suspected this bill died in the Senate. It was also refreshing to learn that only 1/4 of 1 percent of Americans earn minimum wage. As I said over and over that almost NO ONE earns minimum wage that works for a company for any decent period of time. It is an entry level position!

I would also point out that the death tax is a double tax. This is money that the person has saved up AFTER income tax, capital gain tax, social security tax and other taxes have been taking out. Let's keep taxing!

__________________
Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!

Mike, you're technically correct; few people make minimum wage. Most company's give a $0.40 raise within a few months or even a $1 raise. However, you're missing the point.

Minimum wage would have been increased to $7.25 an hour. To understand how many people would be affected, you can't look at who makes minimum wage, but who makes less than $7.25 an hour. I think that encompasses a lot more people than you think and shows the disparity between what people are earning and what we consider to be a living wage.

That is a good point. I thought of that, but that makes it even worse for business. In my example of the restaurant where I said 20 of 50 made minimum wage, another 20 probably earn less than $7.25. I don't like that the Republicans are pushing this.

I am strongly against a forced wage hike. We live in a free market and the market dictates wages, product prices and much more. The bottom line is that low skill workers will allows pay a low wage. This is why people go to school to learn a skill that will make them more money. When the government steps in and forces wage increases they are manipulating the free market. They are forcing a cost on business. Businesses in turn will be forced to eat a several thousand dollar increase in cost, raise prices on their service, or fire some employees.

If workers are not happy with wages they have a few choices. They can learn a better skill, work hard and ask for a raise, retrain, go to school, organize a union, and dozens of other choices. When workers perform well they will get a raise. If they don't get that raise they will move on to another job. Turn over can cost a lot for a company and they don't like to loose employees.

Again, the free market system works the best. Workers will be paid based on the demand for their skill. When the government forces pay, then they weaken the system.

Go ask your local restaurant that is struggling to get by if they can handle a $3,000 increase in cost each month.

__________________
Visit USFK Classifieds, the FREE classifieds in Korea!