I was just curious what other people thought about Isreal's decision to begin attacking Lebanon and so forth.

I don't think Lebanon and Iran have read the New Testament. The book of Daniel would be a good place to start.

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When did the book of Daniel move to be in the New Testament I always thought it was old testament???

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Just my humble opinion!

Guess I should have proof read that a bit more. I have been reading about Paul's leadership skills a lot lately. I have New testament on the brain.

Correction: 'Old' Where 'New' is.... Thanks for the heads up. I am blushing.

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Ahh, great! I specifically came here to find a thread about the Israeli/Lebanese conflict and here we are. So let me give you my thoughts on the subject.

I think the illegal and unwarrented invasion of Lebanon by Israel is completely wrong. First of all, Lebanon is a soverign nation and is afforded all the rights that come with that title. The fact that they have not disarmed Hizbollah (sp) does not give Israel the right to bomb targets within Lebanon proper. The United States foolishly relies too heavily on the blind support they give Israel. It is a shame that those two men were captured and the others wounded an killed. NATO (USA) created this problem when it created the Israeli state in 1948 by dividing the Palestinian (Arab) state and give the holy city of Jerusalem to the Jews. Both religions, Islam and Judiasm claim respective rights to the city. Tensions flare among both peoples almost daily. Back to the matter at hand, sadly before Sharons illness the two groups seemed to finally start to come to terms. Partially due to the fact that Israel actually decided to finally give up some claims and forcefully remove their illegal settlements from the West Bank and Gaza. Unfortunately, this fragile peace process has again been shattered by this Israeli aggression eventhough Hizbollah made the first move. I personally think that a peaceful resolution will never happen in the affected area until one or the other have been wiped off the map completely.

-Ghost

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Knowledge is power.

You will have to wait till this weekend for the long version of this answer, or any strong argument for it:

The state of Isreal was taken from the Jews by force, why not take it back by force (power of the pin)? Isn't that how territorial war works? The Jews have a divine right to that land. I am sure all the others involved believe that they do too, which is why they are fighting for it.

If Cananda practically promised they would use their nukes on us, or even mexico for that matter, would we wait till they used them before we took action? I doubt it. How about after they kidnapped a couple of our troops? Most certainly not then! Take a look at a map man, they are in extreme proximity to each other. They could through rocks at each other from their kitchen windows. If Isreal just sat still they could be wiped off the map.

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Quote:

I think the illegal and unwarrented invasion of Lebanon by Israel is completely wrong. First of all, Lebanon is a soverign nation and is afforded all the rights that come with that title. The fact that they have not disarmed Hizbollah (sp) does not give Israel the right to bomb targets within Lebanon proper.

So, they should just wait until Hezbollah fires 100 rockets a day until they run out of their several thousand rockets? Name a single country in the world that would allow a neighboring country to fire 50-100 rockets a day into their country for months and do nothing. Name a single country and I will agree with you.

Quote:

The United States foolishly relies too heavily on the blind support they give Israel. It is a shame that those two men were captured and the others wounded an killed. NATO (USA) created this problem when it created the Israeli state in 1948 by dividing the Palestinian (Arab) state and give the holy city of Jerusalem to the Jews.

First off NATO did not create the anything in the Middle East. The UN created Israel. So, by your logic we would be creating a problem if we created an Arab state on Israeli land? Jews were in that area HUNDREDS of years before any Muslim. Islam was created some 600 years AFTER Jesus died and he was a Jew. History favors the Jews claim to that land.

It is silly for people to say, "The UN just dropped Jews into the Middle East." People who say this have no concept of the history of the religions in the Middle East or that Jews were in those lands over 600 years before Mohammed was even born.

Quote:

Both religions, Islam and Judiasm claim respective rights to the city. Tensions flare among both peoples almost daily. Back to the matter at hand, sadly before Sharons illness the two groups seemed to finally start to come to terms. Partially due to the fact that Israel actually decided to finally give up some claims and forcefully remove their illegal settlements from the West Bank and Gaza.

Do some research on how Israel got these lands. You will see that Muslims invaded them EVERYTIME besides one time when Israel pre-emptively struck an Arab army gathering for an invasion. Israel owns 1/4 of 1 percent of the land in the Middle East and they are occupying Muslim land?

Quote:

Unfortunately, this fragile peace process has again been shattered by this Israeli aggression eventhough Hizbollah made the first move.

Yeah, when a guy walks up to you on the street and starts punching you don't be aggressive. Ask for him to negotiate. When a criminal kidnaps your daughter while you are at work don't be too aggressive in getting her back. You’re joking right?

If Muslims put down their weapons there will be peace. If Israelis put down their weapons their will be another holocaust.

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That is true, but the topic at hand here is do they have a right to invade another country and the answer is still no. You can babble on all you want about how the Jews have been mistreated all throughout history, but that doesn't give you a right to attack another nation. The Israeli's have again resorted to barbaric brute force all the while the rest of the world is too scared to step on the Holocausts toes and do something about their aggression. While it was a terrible what happened to the Jews it doesn't give them a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in the Middle East. Diplomacy through bombing is not what needs to be done right now, that is not what a civilized society does.

-Ghost

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To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge. -Henry David Thoreau

Knowledge is power.

You are contradicting yourself. You say, "that is true," but do you really mean it? To defend itself from 50-100 rockets Israel has three options.

1. Take the rockets and do nothing (what liberals and Democrats want)
2. Use air strikes and artillery strikes, but do not cross into the border (higher rate of casualties and keeps Hezbollah in Lebanon)
3. A combination of 2 and a ground invasion. This will root out the military part of Hezbollah and push back the rockets out of range of Israeli towns.

What would you do if you were President and your country was being attacked and your citizens were being targeted by 50-100 rockets every day?

Am I babbling? At least I know the difference between the UN and NATO!

I did not say the Israelis were mistreated throughout history and have a right to be aggressive because of this. I said Israel was in the Middle East well over 600 years before Mohammad was a twinkle in his father's eye. So, claims that Israel was suddenly plopped into the Middle East on the poor Muslims is a joke and a cry by those who have no concept of the history in the area. Mohammad was born over 600 years after Jesus died and Jesus was a Jew.

So, you agree then? If a kidnapper come in and takes your daughter and wife, you will just remain calm? If a guy walks up to you in a city and starts punching you that you should remain calm and try to negotiate with him?

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and it is funny how you have not said anything bad about them. You continue to say Israel is committing illegal acts but have yet to talk about the real illegal acts. Are you a supporter of a terrorist organization? They have killed 100s of Americans mostly military personnel. Does that bother you at all? Why do you take their message over the Israelis?

Here is a Hezbollah time line of major Hezbollah terrorist acts, full time line here.

July 19, 1982: The president of the American University in Beirut, Davis S. Dodge, is kidnapped. Hezbollah is believed to be behind this and most of the other 30 Westerners kidnapped over the next ten years.

April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.
Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.
March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

July 18, 1994: Hezbollah bombs the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires–again with Iranian help–killing 86 and injuring over 200.

October 1997: The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

And WOW, history repeats itself!

Oct. 7, 2000: Hezbollah attacks an Israel military post and raids Israel, kidnapping three Israeli soldiers. The soldiers are later assumed dead. In mid-October, Hezbollah leader Nasrallah announces the group has also kidnapped an Israeli businessman. In 2004, Israel frees over 400 Arab prisoners in exchange for the business man and the bodies of the three soldiers.

Dec. 11, 2002: Canada lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

And hey, the UN called for this Israeli action years ago.

Sept. 2, 2004: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," a reference to Hezbollah.

March 10, 2005: The European Parliament overwhelmingly passes a resolution stating: "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The European Union nonetheless refrains from placing the group on its list of terror organizations.

The question is you have to ask yourself why people slam Israel and support the actions of a group that promotes terrorism and has been placed on the Terrorist list by the US, Europe and Canada? Even Bill Clinton made it official!

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Ghostface Killa should stick to his basic point - which I applaud you for spelling it out, because the vast majority of the people you see on the news taking his side will not do so.

Any discussion on this subject should begin with: Should Israel exist as a nation?

If you do not state your opinion on that, or have not formed one, the rest of the conversation is pointless.

Killa stated clearly, then sadly back tracked from it, a clear position:
Israel has no right to exist, and the problem will not be solved until Israel is wiped off the map.

I completely disagree, but he at least temporarily focused on the core issue that must be addressed first.

If he had stuck with that and moved into justification of Hezbulla and Hamas and the likes "resistence" to Israel's "occupation" of the whole of the land, he could have been consistent.

But, his back track left him arguing a point that will not hold up.

He went for the "international law" argument that Israel has "no right" to attack another nation.

That is wrong.

When a nation like Lebanon cannot or will not control armed groups attacking another nation across its border, the other nation has a right to defend itself.

Killa should stick to viewing this as a war with his support going to Hezbolla (sp?) and Arab militants.