Here is a link to the current SOFA Agreement ratified by the South Korean Government it is in pdf format. Here a a few links to articles 1 & 2 .
For the record I do believe that no one person or country is always correct.
What the Author of this thread is pointing out, is that many times it is more convenient to blame the US Military and not look at the whole story. If you think that SOFA keeps US Military out of Korean jail than you are not correct. When I was in Korea last there were several soldiers in Suwon Prison and they deserved to be there. The purpose of SOFA is to make sure that the rights we enjoy in the United States are afforded to the Military in any overseas environment. If you would like I would be happy to discuss this in a different thread. All of us on this board in one way or another have been to Korea and have found something special there.

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Just my humble opinion!

Ah, that kinda point of view. you mean US citizen is so special even if it clashes with foreign country's sovereignty. you know about the status of GIs in Korean Jail? They treated special because the CRIMINAL is US Citizen and USFK soldier under SOFA. The CRIMINAL has his own cell not with other Koren prisoner in especially decorated cell. his cell is hotel room compare to other common cell. He got plenty of PX supplies delivered by GI with truckfull.

USFK command intentially send accused GIs to mainlad to avoid jail time in Korean Jail. It happened in the past and happens now and will happen in the future.

to me US is rouge nation in these specific cases.

What they use to get was C rations probably now they get MRE's. Read the SOFA Agreement. If the role was reversed I would maybe look at why my government does not take care of it's citizens like that. We have Rights that are given to US by our government. Those are extended to overseas areas with a SOFA Agreement. The purpose behind the agreement is to protect those rights when those rights are not extended by the host nation to their own people.
If you were to commit a crime in the United States those rights that we have fair trial, free lawyer ect would be extended to you. Korea does not do that and yes even though Korean Law does not provide those rights the American government is obligated to ensure that we have adaquate legal representation. Granted I am not saying that some issues do not get covered up but the point of the post is that not everything should be taken at face value just because it is convient to blame the US Military. I do not see any mention in Korean press that the Korean Government and business interests in Seoul want the Americans out of Younsan and moved to Pyongtaek because of the value of the land there and they can make more money. They are not making anything off the farmers in Pyongtaek and if the media blames the US why should they care it deflects the attention away from the real reason the base is expanding.

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Just my humble opinion!

What I am about to write might seem harsh or rude or wrong in a discussion forum, but I have listened to stuff like this too many times in the past ----- and I have watched how it has been used up and down Korean society to produce the (bad) situation we have there today - so I'm not going to be diplomatic.

It is exactly this kind of will to ignorance that makes Korea a place the US military should have left since at least 1991 when Sam Nunn and others looked into the idea.

If a Korean military person on a Korean base in the US dumped 20 gallons of embalming fluid into the base sewer ------- it would not even be mentioned in the tinest news article in the smallest newspaper in the city - much less be the subject of endless national news coverage night after night.

Only a nation that is begging to unleash an enormous amount of pent up nationalistic anger would be so ignorant and hateful as to use the 2000 water dump as an excuse for what Korean society displayed for us all to see ad nausem.

What Blue Shark is saying about the 2000 "Poisoning of 10 Milliion Citizens in Seoul!!!" might only be screamed and activated/exercised regularly by the Hanchongryon types (for those who don't know - that is the name of the radical university student group which I'll write a post on soon giving some brief background information many probably don't know), but the ideas are shared by the majority of Koreans.

The press and education and pop culture (key social institutions and thus the society) reenforces it all the time.

It was screamed in the editorial pages frequently for over a year.

You can read my long review of it here.

It is one of the best examples of how anti-US thought thrives in Korean society ---- and what it is all about:

How the US relationship is only a necessary evil - with Korean society enjoying to talk about the evil part and about how good it will be when it isn't necessary.

(I don't go into trade and economic issues and how it works hand in hand with USFK and other issues, but you will see it this year and next easily enough ----- and everytime you hear a Korean newspaper or person you know talk about China overtaking the US as the #1 super economy --- remember that phrase "necessary evil" and how it applies to the US consumer market too and Korea's (unliked) dependance on it (for now)).

It shows the absolute will to ignorance to find a way to exercise nationalistic anti-Americanism ------ when it seems convienent to do so.

Here are the facts:

About 20 gallons of embalming fluid was poured (not in the Han Blue Shark) but the base sewer system.

That sewage waste was processed at least 3 times before touching the Han..

a river so polluted, Korean's won't fish in it.

Korea went absolutely bad shit over it for months on end.

But, this was only 1 of 4 or 5 or 6 things Korea chose to go bat shit over that year though it became the biggest JUSTIFICATION for unloading on the US in Korea. 2000 did not reach the heights of displayed national hatred as 2002, but it was not too far from it, and it was probably the worst since 1988.

The real reason why Korea decided to freak out about 20 gallons of from. (sp?) and an unscheduled bomb release on Maehyang-ri that landed on the range and did no damage (contrary to Korean WILLED NATIONAL myth)????

Because the unthinkable just a year before was clearly going to happen and did happen.....

Peace in our time.....

The end of the Korean Cold War......

Unification........

The wire at the DMZ coming down......

Kim Jong Il shaking hands with Kim Dae Jung......

It really was a massively historic event (bought and paid for).

Koreans were justified in being extremely happy ------ well, down giddy and drunk ---- about it. After so much death and destruction looming over their heads for 50 years and a divided people, they should have been very excited and hopeful with the summit.

But -----------

It should NOT ----- have so INSTANTANEOUSLY -------

-------- opened the flood gates of ------ "Hate US in Korea!!!"

which was so painfully obvious.

It was the 2000 water dumping case (in relation to al the other reasons Korean society gave for making that year one filled with loud speaker reminders of why the US is bad for Korea) and what I had noticed over the years before that led me to repeat the "necessary evil" line so much.

Korean intolerance for "US abuses" ---------

------ and how far they are willing to go to deceive themselves -as a society - not just a "radical minority" - with even the most BS items -----

goes up or down in direct proportion to how much they believe the US can be kicked out safely or how much they fear the US will leave before it is really safe.

However, unless the US media is paying attention or the US defense department is talking about troop cuts, however, the norm is recurrently cultivating things like the 2000 Water Dump Myth or the Koon-ni Range Myth so when they feel the time is ripe, they can explode --- in varying degrees.

Too many short term and some longer term expats get swept away in the sheer amount of crap.

For too many -----

If they stack up the % of Korean people who share all those ideas...

...and pile up exaggerated claim after false info after down right lie.....

they come to the conclusion that the bulk false claims must equal a good bit of net truth.

Which is why I started www.usinkorea.org.

I've covered all the main items I had in mind back in 2002 to illustrate how THE PROCESS works.....

If you dig into the Korean claims ------ at least for me ----- you find again and again and again and again and again and again....

....how there is a society wide will to ignorance in order to boost Korean nationalism by --- as they see it --- cover up the "shame" of "needing" the US --- by beating the hell out of it (when convienent).

(On edit, I put this note up here because it will get lost in my rambling below....

the special treatment GIs get is given to international prisoners in Korea, because Korea wants to limit the headaches it has gotten from Amnesty International. Those foriengers didn't need a SOFA to be housed in the same wing as the GIs and given similar benefits.)

Blue Shark is displaying well what you might only have spit at you by Hanchongryon types, but what Korean society as a whole to be the God's honest truth.

Again......it is yet another crystal clear evidence of how the society as a whole has a will to ignorance to justify loving to dislike the necessary evil in their midst.

Here is the Korea Times editor telling you what the Korean news, not infrequently politicians, and many other influencial avenues say enough each year to convince even pro-US relationship Koreans it is the God's honest truth:

He said that if the US military allowed the Korean courts to have the GI involved in a DUI fatality case, it would be the "first time" a US soldier had been tried in a Korean court.

I heard this all the time in the late 1990s when teaching adults (aged generally 25-40).

It was the first clue I had how screwed up Korean society is when it comes to the US relationship....

......because since I didn't know any better when I first arrived, I just asked questions.

Unlike some new guys, I didn't just take their word for it --- even though it was stated to me by 99% of the students that GIs are "never" held to justice in Korea but just "fly away to America" because the US government forces the Korean government to protect them.

I just asked for examples.

Simple enough. Or should have been. If it is so widely known and accepted as fact, somebody should have a few examples handy.

What I found amazed me.

I'm not exaggerating. Amazed me.

It became clear soon that the only examples they could come up with ----
---- were actually of infamous horrible crimes (or lesser ones) in which ----- in point of fact ---- the GIs were found guilty in a Korean criminal civilian court (something a Korean soldier never faces).

You really need to go through one of these conversations to understand how mind-boggling it can be.

To see someone use examples where somewhere locked in their brain, they actually know that they know the details of the case ---- because it came out at trial.

Some don't know. They don't remember or didn't hear the news when the trials actually finished and 100% of the GIs were found guilty. (Including the 1995 subway case), because the Korean press likes to report the crimes, but is less diligent about the convictions.

But, still with most ------ if you press them on the "GIs "NEVER" face justice but just fly away to the US" ---

----the majority will fall back to Shark's position ----- talking about how many more inches of space a GI bastard criminal gets and how ------ horror of horrors ------ friends, family, or others from the base can bring them items!!!

As if Korean mothers and cousins and friends can't visit inmates and bring them things.

Or.........MY GOD!!!! ------- the GIs get to cook/eat AMERICAN FOOD!!!!! ---- as if some of the things the Korean family brings isn't food.

Time and time again, I started at "GIs are NEVER......."

and ended up at a Korean justifying the GI Crimes Myth on hot dogs and floor space.

Oh ---- and the unimaginable affront to Korea's national sovereignty.

How many dead and wounded GIs in the war (and after it) and billions of dollars pumped into South Korea can we offer to justify some hot dogs and floor space?

After watching the 60 Minutes segment on the orgy of hate in 2002, and after seeing the USFK commander, a well trained and experienced professional, break down and cry in an interview, my sister called me in Korea and asked how that could possibly happen.

I said I didn't know how any of them didn't.

I believe if you give South Korea a fair hearing.

If you dig into these issues.

You will walk away much more frustrated than when you went in.

That is why some of the most anti-alliance Americans you will meet are soldiers who served in Korea for several years often in positions where they had to deal with the society a good bit.

And here is one example about the digging I experienced last summer.

Even after all I had learned about how full of crap Korean society is with all this stuff ------even after I had seen the will to ignorance displayed again and again and again over a period of years ----

I was flabbergasted again when I found that -----

the first 2 GIs convicted in a Korean court happened in 1967!!!!

I knew I had watched GIs accused and convicted regularly in the mid to late 1990s -- and still had Koreans tell me it never happens ----- even had some long time students who were in class for 2 murders over a period of years ---- who were in class when I brought in articles showing how the first was convicted ------ still managed to say when the 2nd one came that GIs are "never" held to Korean justice ------

but I figured with all these Koreans believing the same thing, it must have been true sometime before 1989 (which was the earliest I'd found cases before).

But 1967.......

Don't give me that. Han River is not that polluted. people often fishing on it.
and sewer system can't neuteralize toxic wastes.

You always says US is good guy and defending Korea. well, US is not allways good guy and yes, they are defending Korea for their sake, for their profits.

This is United States Forces, defender of Worlds' Human Rights.

1st -

If you want to use the Iraqi prisoner abuse example to justify your claims about the US in Korean society, fine.

If you want to link to sites that have the photos from the abuse to display or link directly to the images, fine.

But, I deleted those images from your post as the moderator of this section of USFK Forums.

Now....onto the issue....

For other readers, if you have not taught English to Korean adults, you will not understand how pretty much everything Blue Shark is saying is the norm.

The closer you get to age 20, the more adamant they will be about telling you these truths and using this logic and style of point making.

The closer you move up to age 40, you will find much the same beliefs, but they will not really want to talk about it, and they will frequently say things like, "Yes, but, you see......we need the US (consumer market or US military)."

80%+ of what they - in their society - have built up to justify this attitude is pure horseshit - just as I believe the vast majority of people can see if they just care to look.

Now, onto specifics....

The Han River in Seoul is highly polluted, and more than 1 Korean has laughed at me when I mentioned fishing or swimming in the river.

Koreans also don't drink tap water.

Yes, the 3 treatments of the sewage before touching the Han removed EVEN THE REMOTEST POSSIBLITY the stuff dumped could have harmed ANYBODY.

A couple of months after the Great Poisoning of 10 Million Korean Souls

a news item ran about a couple of logging companies that were finally getting seriously fined and taken to court for letting TONS -------- TONS ---- of fromaldhyde (used to preserve the wood) run off into the Han.

TONS.........TONS........TONS..........

And no national uproar.

USFK + 20 gallons = months of rage and years of news articles about ti.

Korean + TONS!!! TONS!!! TONS!!!! = fine and fogotten.

"You always says US is good guy and defending Korea."

Show me where I have said the US is always the good guy?

"Yes, they are defending Korea for their sake, for their profits."

As noted earlier --- typical example of Korea is so hell bent on believing the US is a cancer on their society --------

they can't contemplate the idea of mutal interests.

They do admit what good has come out of the US relationship --- when they have to or as window dressing.

The closer you get to those 65 and older, the more you find Koreans who really mean it and believe it as the core thought on the US-SK relationship.

But, below that generation ------ Blue Shark's type of thinking is more typical.

Is there any freedom of speech in US? How come you deleted my link images?
You can't admit Abu Ghraib abuse by US soldier?

You just made this site to denounce Korean people? You always posted Koreans did this bad thing, such and such.

Great site indeed and Adios