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| Protests - 항의 For protest and other anti-US discussion |
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#1
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The government will take stronger measures to seize control of lands for a new U.S. military base in Pyongtaek, Kyonggi Province, and evict protesters from the area as early as later this week, the Defense Ministry said Tuesday.This makes me very apprehensive. I also believe we can guess at several different readings of the move. On the one hand, it is a bold statement by the national government which I have been calling for. Read my other recent posts on the Pyongtaek Protests where I complain about how the government made very weak moves that the anti-US groups had partial (more then 50%) success in thwarting --- which only encourages more Koreans to feel better about the actions of these groups: Korea likes winners. But, this move could also be a disaster, and it could be a plot: more on both below. 1. Anytime you stick regular army or national guard troops in riot control situations -- whether a native army or foreign one (like in Iraq for the US now) - you are courting disaster. In Iraq today, it is necessary given the war and the fact the Iraqi government is not strong enough or a tested democracy enough to warrant handing most of this type of duty to it. But, that is getting side-tracked. The better example is the many we have had in the US in the 1960s and 70s when National Guard and other soldiers were in major clashes with civilians and people were killed. Kwangju 1980 is the ultimate example in Korea. These days, American soldiers get some civil riot control training. I doubt extremely that the ROK regular army receives this type of training. I'm not saying there is a chance they will open fire on protests at Pyongtaek. I am saying they are not prepared for what they WILL face there. The riot police troops are so used to getting their shields bashed and people pulling on their helmets and grabbing at them and kicking at them and throwing dirt or rocks or worse at them ---- they are utterly used to the semi-violence of Korea's constant protest culture. They are also used to what the limits are in fighting back. ROK regular troops do not have the ingrained patience and understanding of the parameters of violence. That makes this move by the government very unsettling. 2. This could be a ploy. I believe it is highly likely there are plenty of enough trained and very experienced riot control troops in the nation - especially Seoul and Pusan but also in other major cities. Why in hell is the government sending regular soldiers when he has so many troops specifically trained for this type of mission????????? I can't figure it out. Which is making me lean toward conspiracy theories I normally don't like. See ---- The memory of when the Korean government used to use MUCH stronger riot control methods is still VERY fresh in Korean society's memory. The memory of when regular soldiers were used and many Koreans died is VERY fresh. Each year, several times a year, Korean society remembers back to bloody days of the past ---- both when the government used intolerable methods to suppress dissent and when violent communist inspired forces clashed with the heavily authoritarian government in not so innocent "protests" ---- AND the society likes to believe BOTH types were examples of democracy fighters trying to bring democracy to the nation. Some conservative Koreans would openly criticise the protesters in the 2nd type of bloody incident, but more and more, that type of conservatism is shrinking and has been moved out of mainstream institutions (like the press and schools) since perhaps as far back as the early to mid-1990s. So --- my point is ---- with Korean society making the effort to remind itself of its authoritarian government past through a series of anniversaries spread out each year --- how hard is it going to be for memories to kick in when they see regular ROK soldiers facing off farmers and "peasants" in the Pyongtaek violent protests that are as sure to come as the sun rising in the east?????? Next --- Who is sending these regular army men down to "suppress" the peasants? Roh Mun-Hyun and his Uri Party-led administration. Think about that for a long time....... Roh - a former civil rights and democracy advocate who bitterly fought authoritarian rule --- ---is opting not to send in gobs and gobs of trained riot police units -- but is choosing the regular army.... ??????? What the f- ?????? In an election year with the presidential election coming up next year too --- Roh - the former dissident - is sending in ROK soldiers instead of calling up riot police from all around the nation.... Roh and Uri Party ---- who have provided frequent quotes from top administrative members - both current and former ---- saying how the American "secret hand" has been behind all Korea's troubles from the Kwangju and Cheju Massacres to the colonization by Japan and stretching back into the 19th century. the kind of people who left the administration in this election year so they could say the FTA talks is the 2nd colonization of Korea is bypassing riot control units in favor of regular army units????? Something is not right here..... And when I start to think like this ---- it starts to make sense: If I were Machiavelli ---- I would know South Korean society as a whole isn't ready to demand USFK leave. I would know I needed to condition enough of the society to think such a demand were OK. If Roh - who once helped a petition drive to demand the government demand USFK leave --- wanted to follow through with the type of anti-Americanism that got him elected in that close race in 2002 --- if those still are his core beliefs -- ----but he knew soon after entering the Blue House his government would not be able to openly act on these core beliefs ------- beliefs we know are still the core --- because he obviously put so many people around him in key government posts who have provided enough quotes since 2002 to show they are "progressives" -- with that including a very, very healthy dose of anti-US in Korea thought guiding what being "progressive" means --- he would know he could not press hard with what his heart felt was right. Not only would the people not go along with seeking ways to get USFK out, Uri Party was not in a position of strength in the National Assembly. But, since key elections are coming up ---- ? ---- which path could you choose to regain the Blue House in 2007 and gain ground in the NA? For example: Roh mentioned gaining control of war time command of the Korean military (thus split command of the combined defense during war) in the run up to the election of 2002 and after. Then it disappeared as he found he was not in a position of strength in the government - not strong enough to push through what would be unpopular, contreversial items. But, starting last year, and continuing steadily this year, he has been out talking about getting war time control - and he has put the government in motion to tell the US it wants discussions on the subject and a road map to it. So ---- what I am getting at is ---- Roh and crew might be setting things up to attempt to swing the nation back toward a mind-set that was the glorious catalyst to the very formation of Uri Party ----- the orgy of anti-Americanism of 2002 and the giant leap forward of "progressives" as a co-equal as a political force in the nation --- no longer just a dissident movement. I have always said I give it a good chance ---- 50/50% ----- the FTA talks that have already begun as part of this years election cycle --- ----and will continue all this year and a good chunk of the next ---- during the big prize election cycle - the Blue House ----- were set up so "progressives" in the administration and National Assembly and others of power in the party ----- could be seen as "splintering away" from "The government" (Roh's administration) ----- -----to lead a powerful charge against the kind of ideas that are the core of the conservative party. Basically ---- I mean ---- Roh and crew decided that since he can't get re-elected and will be a lame duck this year and next and is already unpopular ---- he would be seen as moving in a direction away from the progressives --- ---in order to give them a beachball set on a tee for the Uri Party progressive political hopefuls to beat the hell out of to win votes. We are already seeing this with the FTA. Whether it was a plot or not will never be known. Now --- we have this odd move with Pyongtaek. Could Roh and crew really be that devious? To send in regular army units ---- in order to remind the people of the bad days of authoritarian rule by former generals ---- in order to help the progressives in the elections? If they aren't that devious, it means they are really that f-ing stupid. Take your pick.... I have to lean toward "devious" ---- because it is the only thing that makes sense ----- if you consider how many thousands and thousands of trained riot control police there are in the nation...... If Roh was a member of the conservative GNP party and they controlled the government and they sent in regular soldiers ----- I'd think it was stupid --- but it would fit given their politics. But the real Roh doing this? It does not make sense --- unless..................................... Last edited by usinkorea : 04-25-2006 at 05:06 AM. |
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#2
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Also consider any time you use Miltary troops in a police sitution you run the risk of inciting more action as some military may be reluctent to hurt civilians or over anxious. Do we dare draw a comparison with Tiananmen square? Perhaps even a comparison to Kent State Riots from the Viet Nam era? As there may be some to young to remember those historical moments I put a link to either a picture or a short story about it. Granted I do not think that it will get to the levels of the 2 comparisons but I believe there were some riots by college students in Korea where military was used instead of police and the results were dead students. I can not remember the exact year or the university I will search around but I would bet Mr Joe remembers what I am talking about! Unless the ROK Soldiers are being trained for riot situtations there is a better than 50% chance this could back fire on the Government but some how i see the US Miltary becoming the bearer of the blame.
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Just my humble opinion!
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#3
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Perception
My main point is about perception.
Besides Kwangju 1980 - there were other times under the authoritarian government and even stretching into the 1990s in Korea where riot police units used very harsh means to combat protesters --- who were also using harsher means than what I call the routine of semi-violence we've seen since about 1998. Besides 1980, there were other times where the regular military was called out with serious and at times deadly consequences. That is all very fresh in the nations memory, and as time has passed, the idea promoted by the government that the protesters were a bunch of "communist reds" has shifted to more belief all of them were democracy advocates (freedom fighters) and the government was 100% to blame. The chance of the Korean regular army guys going nuts today are tiny. Even if they went nuts, they will not be given tools with which they could do what is unthinkable today -- no bullets and no bayonets ---- and no rifles. In all likelyhood, they will be given riot control gear like the riot police ------- and like the engineer contractors were given during the last protests. At worst, on the police side, you stand a small chance of having the regular troops losing discipline and breaking ranks and getting into street fight types of confrontations perhaps using their batons - and the rioters using bamboo poles and either thin or thick steel bars like they currently do..... What I am more interested in is --------- the chance this is a plot or ploy to win the society over to the "progressives" during an election year...... ??? It is about perception ----- Having regular army units out facing protesters where there is just semi-violence ---- ----might easily call up memories of the bad days....... Last edited by usinkorea : 04-25-2006 at 07:38 AM. |
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#4
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Not a good situation here and hopefully al parties ahve/had a chance to truly sitdown and discuss the issues.
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BOOM, BOOM. Out goes the Lights
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