What were they thinking?

I do not want to pass judgment on all for the actions of a few. The soldiers actions on the Gwangju incident begs the question is the quality of the soldiers they are recruiting a trend?

Although this is a misnomer offense in the judicial system it is appalling. I am quite sure if it is left to the Command they will receive more severe punishment then what they will receive in the Korean judicial system. I do not believe it warrants a demonstration since this is a frequent occurrences on the streets with those having too much too drink. The fact that they are soldiers makes it more appalling. The Army has a buddy policy. The concept is simple. If one has a brain fart moment, the other convinces them, not a good idea.

Would this have occurred in the US on a mass transit system? I doubt it. Why did it occur in Korea? Should commanders begin to initiate morals training? We have POSH, and EO already. Is this an isolated incident?

Considering these are 3 individuals of the thousands that continuously rotate would be an insignificant number; however once, is too many occurrences of this behavior.

Although this may be an isolated incident, I have noticed an increase in the media reports of soldiers involved in far more serious incidents. Has the ability to recruit people with good morals becoming more of a challenge over the past 30+ years?

Do you have any more info on the "Gwangju incident"?

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I asked around about something I saw flash by on Korean TV-something about Pyongtaek and someone killed at the subway station-involving US and an apology-this was last Wednesday or Thursday? Anyone connect on that?
please PM me.
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On the subject of Soldiers---
Referring to the level of soldiers being recruited- yes there is a possible problem. I think it was October 2005 they dropped the requirements and recruited "Category 4" people into the Army. 12% I think. This has to do with their ability to pass enlistment examinations. In order to keep up quotas (numbers) it was necessary, the Army said. I believe it happened again in December. This is only a recollection, but close to the facts. These folks MAY be showing up in Korea about now.
There is a "Cat 4" group. Bottom feeders. The Army said they have never recruited from that lowest scoring group-before. My good friend, A retired AF Recruiter, says that is a lie. He remembers a time way back when-early Vietnam, he thinks, when the army needed truck drivers badly, they admitted level 4 folks. Perhaps Mike remembers a time when the AF took a few lower scoring Airmen. They were a disaster in the AF!
They got in a lot more trouble with the UCMJ and dope, etc. than others.
{The AF just doesn't have a place for the equivalent of truck drivers who deliver into to the FEBA. Almost all truck drivers in the AF have to be able to read, and understand airfield driving signals, pass a flight line driving test and most require a security clearance.) This reading/understanding and clearance thing normally prevents lower scoring recruitment.

Anyhow, boil it down; the war has caused more intelligent volunteer soldiers to re-evaluate the situation, and the re-enlistment quotas are not happening. The Army is trying money, bonuses, and added goodies, but last year it did not prevent them from dropping below the quotas necessary to fill the needs. So they felt the need for cannon fodder. Fighting words for some, but this is my interpretation, and only an opinion.

In defense of lowering scores, an Army officer told me he LOVED to work with Cat 3 soldiers, as they WANT to be soldiers, and try VERY hard, and some make the best soldiers. So there. Any other opinions?

S. Korean activists protest alleged lewd behavior by soldiers on train
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?...3&archive=true

Although this is in most news sites, this one appeared in S&S.

Hiker:OK I see that probably was a version of the Gwangu incident I saw- thanks!

There are a lot of stories on the net about The Army Recruitment problems- I see the Army has twisted the figures to make it look like it is not so bad, but reading through the doubletalk, it is dismal. Here is an old blog from last December that reads similarly to my original post above, but someone (me?)confused Cat 3 and Cat 4?
Believe whomever you choose- there is still a problem-and the results can easily translate into stupid behavior in a foreign country by lesser educated soldiers.
-Here is the Dec 05 blog about strange Army Recruiting numbers….
http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2005/12/recruitin g-oddities_19.html

Joe;

Some interesting articles on the standards for new recruits. I am not sure of the validity of the parapundit blog. This is the first time I have accessed this website. There is also some stats that counter the claim about not recruiting Cat IV’s These stats are from the DoD web site.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...-standards.htm

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003026.html

http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep98/html/2-afqt.html

These are the most recent stats from USD Defense Personnel and Readiness site. I am not sure why they have not included 04 or 05?

http://www.defenselink.mil/prhome/po...dixb/b_04.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/prhome/po...dixb/b_05.html

I intended to include a comment on the one commander who included Overweight soldiers as a contributing factor to his grey hair. I thought this was a little strange since I have had soldiers that were very dedicated to the mission and some that actually maxed the PT test leave the service due to the hassle of trying to expunge themselves prior to weigh in.

I would say the military as a whole is having a "below standards" problem. Did anyone else read the report in the Air Force Times about the Air Force cutting 40,000 people? What jumped out at me is the Air Force has an overage of 1,800 Lt Col pilots!

Additionally, the rate of promotion to Major and Lt Col has been the highest I have ever seen. If I recall the promotion rate to Major has been over 90% for years. While there are some outstanding officers getting promoted, there are some terrible officers making the grade as well. With a 90% promotion rate to positions of authority this high, the force can only suffer.

Mike

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The DOD doesn’t want to talk about it, of course. There are prohibitions on publishing test scores by race, ethnicity, etc. But the facts remain. Lower scores have been show to equate to poor performance in war skills. Poor marksmanship, desire to finish a task, and loyalty under fire, all make a difference. It is an unacceptable trend.
I can readily see the degradation in the “Quality of the Force”, as I work beside military folks every day. I am not the only one who notices. The Military officers can do little to make it better. There is a lot of time spent on training, and physical fitness. On the surface the Generals recently said they were proud of the troops, and that there is no better fighting force in the world. So there! Guess the allies must have similar recruiting problems, if Iraq is any indication.
If we continue to be the policemen for the world, we will have to pay our soldiers well, like Soldiers of Fortune, or go to a draft to get people who do not drop out 18% from basic training. I wish ‘em luck. I did my 23 years, now let the next generation do it. (Yes, I am a little worried that a generation of non-voting pot smokers will hold my life in their hands if I ever have to go to a nursing home!)
P.S. I just saw that the Army rules have been changed so that some tattoos showing and (braids and corn row hair styles for women) are now OK. This is a plus for enlistees of the future. (No nose rings-yet.)

Although there are pros and cons to the AFQT test scores and I have seen it on both ends of the spectrum. One points you addressed was the lazy lethargic responses from some that would have probably scored within the Cat IV maybe as low as Cat V. Some of these individuals take advantage of their cognitive ineptness. I had one high school student who I was told was required to take any test in the counselor’s office. He always seemed to pass test; however, was unable to perform the task. I had set up a performance oriented test to see if he actually could perform. He thought I was going to get tired and give him a passing grade. Once he realized I was going to make him show me he could do the task he performed to standards. He did not go back to the counselors office for testing.

OTH I had a highly intelligent soldier who would get other soldiers to perform his task. He would pretend as though he did not know how to perform operator’s level maintenance. A Sat AM session of checking all the vehicles in the motor parks fluid levels seemed the cure.

I am not sure if the leadership is to quick to dismiss the additional training time that is sometimes required to get their attention or if there is burnout with the Iraq conflict. I also see a bigger picture from where I sit with the numbers.