Yeah...I did read the entire thread. That's why I mentioned immigrants, whether it was their choice or not. And honestly, African slaves were just a part of the bigger problem. Slavery was happening in all parts of the world, and most people would be very surprised to find that it was more than just Africans that were brought over forcibly. I totally agree with you about the Chinese, but again, it wasn't just them. A lot of different people got on the boats with hopes and dreams only to be put into some type of slavery or another.

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

We realize your points about there being world wide slavery and others who were forced into servitude but, the subject was concerning reparations to be given by the U.S government. There were no two groups of people in the wide spectrum of U.S government sanctioned functions, who more more mal-treated than the African slaves and many tribes of Native Americans. It is from that moral standpoint that I make a case for reparations in the form of free education for people from those two groups who would pursue it. If one is to seriously discuss things like reparations, you have to draw the line somewhere and not continuously banter it into the many gray areas that can be found.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

Yep...I know exactly what the subject is, and that's why I brought those points up. I was not talking about world wide slavery at all. I was talking about slaves coming to America from all parts of the world. That's two totally different subjects. If people want reparations, then they need to go back to the people that SOLD them into slavery. I'm all for reparations for every group out there, but I think that we've paid enough already...

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

O.K. friend, I'll bite. Tell me where in the world, other than Africa, slaves were hunted like animals, caught, chained up, put like cattle aboard wooden ships, treated like animals and in massive numbers, and sold like commodities into slavery in Europe and the colonies?

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

Just look over the border. All the way down to the tip of South America. And that's just one example of slavery that was happening at that time. People were being shipped here from all over the world as slaves. They just never made any movies about it, so it's not that popular with western culture. The Spanish and French were notorious for sweeping across South America, capturing as many villagers as they could, and selling them to slave traders here in the "New World" or taking them back to Europe.

Now...the thing that gets me, and this is probably where we can back off each other a bit and have some good intellectually stimulating debates, is why the African Americans STAYED slaves for much longer than the majority of the other cultures. That's an interesting debate...

Either way, Turk, it's kinda moot to argue about the whole thing. Like I said earlier, I get a bit passionate about some things and I really didn't mean to spark this whole thread into what it's become. So, with that, I'll resign from this thread and let you guys get back to coming up with solutions...

Joe

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

There's nothing wrong with being passionate about something. I'm just wondering if there was such substantial enslavement of native people from south of the border to the tip of South America, slaves who were brought to work in the American colonies, why has there been so little history and information about it? I have no doubt there were enslaved people other than Africans who were brought to the east coast of the U.S. but the scale with which the Africans were bought and sold overshadows everything else. AND it is a matter of the most overwhelming case on the scales of justice when we are talking about who could deserve reparations. Now, if the French and Spanish enslaved native Americans and shipped them to Europe, then that is a subject for the Europeans to discuss. The last word is yours if you want it, I don't mind learning new information, after all when we cease to learn we might as well roll over and play dead.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

I don't mind learning new information, after all when we cease to learn we might as well roll over and play dead.

Is that not the point of discussion to learn? That is what makes this forum different from others the fact that we do not jsut try to make our point but we listen too. That is the difference between arguement and discussion.

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Just my humble opinion!

I'm confused by what other cultures to which you're referring. Are you comparing New World slavery to the slavery in Roman Republic or Empire? To slavery in Europe or the Muslim world? Or are you comparing the slavery of Africans to the slavery of Native Americans or indentured servitude of European Americans? Or are you questioning why the US was so late to bring an end to slavery compared with Europe and other American countries?

There's nothing wrong with arguing either. people who are passionate about certain things will tend to argue their point. Arguing a point is the main reason for a forum. Its important to understand the main point of the post before arguing for it or against it. As in politics and everything else, intentionally straying off of the main point is a tactic usually employed by those who are losing the argument of the main point.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

I really think that the only reparations that should be given out are the chances to go back to Africa to live. Before someone starts calling me a racist let me explain a little more. I'm not saying "lets ship all the afiican americans back to africa" What I am saying is I think that that is the only equal course of action that can be taken. Money isn't going to fix it, although I'll bet a lot of the undeserving people that would qualify have dollar signs in their eyes, but since early Americans brought the Africans over here against their will the only thing of equal value would to be to send them back to Africa.

I am 100% against the goverment giving out reparations, none of these people were slaves, and none of us owned anyone.

I hope this is making sense, it's a little hard to put this down properly and not sound like a bigot or something.