Iraqi athletes killed for wearing shorts - Page 3

mike · #21 06-02-2006, 05:11 PM

Bob,

Please explain to me why Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim and Iran and Iraq are almost 100% Muslim even though Islam has been around 600 years less than Christianity. Also, why is America and Europe a melting pot with large Muslim populations. Why is Israel 1/4 Muslim?

Mike

Bob · #22 06-03-2006, 12:43 PM

stupid browser wiped my answer

oh wel

Quote:

It must be conceded that automatic death for apostasy is not as prominent a theme in the Quran as one would expect. For instance, these verses condemn it, but its punishment is reserved for divine judgment in the Last Day, or its punishment is not clear down here on earth: Suras 2:217; 3:72, 86-87, 90; 4:137; 5:54; 16:106; 33:14; 47:25-27; 73:11; and 74:11.

there is no clear reason why Islam takes such a strong hold in the hearts and minds of those who believe in it... but the presence of Islam in such strong numbers indicate the success of proselytization in those regions.

mike · #23 06-03-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

there is no clear reason why Islam takes such a strong hold in the hearts and minds of those who believe in it... but the presence of Islam in such strong numbers indicate the success of proselytization in those regions.

Bob, that is not really a great answer.

Let me tell you why Islam is 100% is Saudi Arabia.

First, it is punishable by death to try to convert a Muslim to another language. So, those that are Muslim are never really allowed to see other religions. Simply put, they are intolerant of other religions and believe their religion is the only way. Try to convert one and you will most likely face jail time and even death.

Second, even if people are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia, they will not say so to their friends or family or show it on the street or to the government. Why? Because they will either be killed or banished from their family or village. If the government census comes around, how many do you think will actually check non-Muslim religions?

Third, Islam is generally a new religion. As the religion spread through the Middle East your were forced to convert to Islam or you were killed or forced to flee. This is the true reason why 100% of people in Middle Eastern countries are Muslim. They have almost no other choice and are not exposed to other religions.

Bob, I guess you are convinced that Muslims are tolerant and I will never change that. I guess we see two different worlds. I know for a fact that Middle Eastern countries are not tolerant of other religion and the facts back me on this. I invite you to visit Saudi Arabia with a bible or another religious book. If you do go let me know if either book makes it through customs. Also, try to give it to one of the custom officials and let me know what happens. If you are really brave tell them that you are Jewish!

Mike

mike · #24 06-03-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

But honestly, are you justifying Israeli violence because they have eminent domain in Palestine?

Bob, Are you forgetting what you posted? You posted it as your first point.

Quote:

1. Israel/Palestine: Palestinian land is usurped by a UN mandate resulting in the creation of a Jewish state following WWII. Ok. Palestinian nationalist and other anti-Zionist groups have been very active in this region with suicide bombings and the like. Did you know there are right wing Israeli organizations who have done the same thing right back? Coupled with 'proactive' offensives by the Israeli army ... this pretty much goes both ways.

You stated that a Jewish state was created by the UN. That land was taken from Muslims and given to Jews. That is totally false as Jews were in that area over 600 years before a twinkle in Mohammed's father's Eye.

mike · #25 06-03-2006, 01:24 PM

Here is the FBI's most wanted terrorists list. Let me know how many non-Muslims their are.

It seems to be absent of Christians or Jews.

Let me guess a reply. "Well, this is an American list of course they will be Muslim."

Well, go take a look at the most wanted terrorist lists in any Muslim country, I bet you dollars to donuts they will be mostly Muslim as well. Go do a search on "terrorist and (country)" in Google. Replace (country) with any country. Let me know what you find.

Doesn't Cuba and other South American countries hate us? Why are not any terrorists from there on the list?

Mike

Doutdes · #26 06-04-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

You stated that a Jewish state was created by the UN. That land was taken from Muslims and given to Jews. That is totally false as Jews were in that area over 600 years before a twinkle in Mohammed's father's Eye.

And 600 years ago my people were roaming throughout Europe, how the hell did they end up in Wisconsin? Mike, this is nonsense. A similar argument could be made for returning Texas and California to Mexico.

mike · #27 06-04-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

And 600 years ago my people were roaming throughout Europe, how the hell did they end up in Wisconsin? Mike, this is nonsense. A similar argument could be made for returning Texas and California to Mexico.

Doutes, that is my point! I am saying that it is silly for the Palestinians to say Israel is living on stolen land. This is the excuse I hear from people that are pro-Palestinian point of view. When a suicide bomber kills 50 Israeli civilians on a bus, I always here, "Well, it is Israel's fault for taken land from the Palestinians."

Doutdes · #28 06-04-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

Doutes, that is my point! I am saying that it is silly for the Palestinians to say Israel is living on stolen land. This is the excuse I hear from people that are pro-Palestinian point of view. When a suicide bomber kills 50 Israeli civilians on a bus, I always here, "Well, it is Israel's fault for taken land from the Palestinians."

Mike, the above argument is incongruent with the argument you made earlier:

Quote:

That land was taken from Muslims and given to Jews. That is totally false as Jews were in that area over 600 years before a twinkle in Mohammed's father's Eye.

You first argued that the land couldn't have been stolen from the Muslims, because the Jews were in Isreal well over 600 years before Islam was founded. That is the Jews were there first argument.

Now you're arguing that akin to Texas, it doesn't matter how the land was taken, all that matters is who has possession of it. That would be a strong argument for Texas and California, but not something as recent as creation of the Israeli State. It's the "you lost, get over it" argument. One of the reasons I don't like that argument, is because it's biased against Isreal, because much of the land in Isreal was purchased rather than stolen.

mike · #29 06-04-2006, 04:35 PM

Doutes, my main point is that we can not use the argument, "that was my people land xx years ago", to justify violence. If that were the case almost every empire could claim land today from the Romans to the Persians. I once saw a German try to sue a Polish family for a house because the German lady's parents built the house when Germany occupied Poland during WWII!

Quote:

One of the reasons I don't like that argument, is because it's biased against Israel, because much of the land in Israel was purchased rather than stolen.

You hit the nail on the head. Much of the land was bought from the Palestinians.

Bob · #30 06-05-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

Bob, that is not really a great answer.

Let me tell you why Islam is 100% is Saudi Arabia.

First, it is punishable by death to try to convert a Muslim to another language. So, those that are Muslim are never really allowed to see other religions. Simply put, they are intolerant of other religions and believe their religion is the only way. Try to convert one and you will most likely face jail time and even death.

Second, even if people are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia, they will not say so to their friends or family or show it on the street or to the government. Why? Because they will either be killed or banished from their family or village. If the government census comes around, how many do you think will actually check non-Muslim religions?

Third, Islam is generally a new religion. As the religion spread through the Middle East your were forced to convert to Islam or you were killed or forced to flee. This is the true reason why 100% of people in Middle Eastern countries are Muslim. They have almost no other choice and are not exposed to other religions.

Bob, I guess you are convinced that Muslims are tolerant and I will never change that. I guess we see two different worlds. I know for a fact that Middle Eastern countries are not tolerant of other religion and the facts back me on this. I invite you to visit Saudi Arabia with a bible or another religious book. If you do go let me know if either book makes it through customs. Also, try to give it to one of the custom officials and let me know what happens. If you are really brave tell them that you are Jewish!

Mike

So there are lot of half truths in the previous paragraphs... but I am tired and I'll try address each point later.

but here... a quote from Muslim leadership in Saudi and some perspective on Islam in Saudi Arabia.

Quote:

The Saudi Defence
Minister said in an interview:
“People who worship quietly in
their homes are not a concern of
the Saudi government”. In a
statement to the UN in April 2000,
Prince Dr Turki Ibn Mohammed Ibn
Saud Al-Kabeer said :“No non-
Muslims had ever been subjected to
prosecution or punishment because
of their religious faith”

As far as your rationale for why Islam is so prevalent in Saudi Arabia...

Quote:

In a pamphlet provided by the
Saudi Arabian government,“Anyone
in Saudi Arabia is entitled to his
own beliefs and practices. But
Saudi Arabia cannot allow the public
practice of any religion which
contradicts Islam. Saudi Arabia is a
special place; it is the cradle of
Islam and the Prophet Mohamed
declared it a preserve of Islam. A
lot of so-called dissidents want all
non-Muslims thrown out of Saudi
Arabia. But the government takes a
far more moderate stance.”

Once again Mike, I reiterate.. as with ALL religions, however you interpret your religion and however you zealously enforce it ... that's the impact it has on other people. Just as with Christians, there are people who are who are completely intolerant of other religions and believe anyone that doesn't believe in Christ will burn in hell. It's not a reflection of the religion it's the reflection of the person espousing the religion. Do you still not see what I'm saying Mike?

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