Thats a rather odd comment. I had access to free healthcare, i have never gone to the docters without having a very good reason and still always tried not go.

and mike you your living with blinders as well, there lots of counties out there with free or subsitized healthcare (maybe not free but cheap) you refuse to look at the examples of these other counties and stick to your own.

but anyways i really am not interested in a huge debate and even if i got into one everyones feelings are stuck in ground and it isn't going to change so good luck to everyone

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Did you read the article? waiting 8 months cor a CT scan is not my idea of free.

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I'm not opposed to health care reform but I do not think free health care is the answer in America. I have been part of the free health care system before while stationed abroad where there was no US military base and I was not impressed by the service I received.

A health care system I found to be quite innovative was the one I saw in Malaysia. In Malaysia they have both government and private hospitals. If you bought health insurance you could go to the private hospital. The government hospitals offered free health care to everyone but the waits are long and the hospitals are staffed with many college interns. So everybody had access to free health care but you get what you pay for.

Could such a system work in the US? Who knows but is worth looking at but making everyone have to join a national health care system is a recipe for disaster financially and opens the doors to more demands for government hand outs.

On CNN they had a good report on the Michael Moore movie and it caused Moore to go bonkers:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...upta.moore.cnn

I definitely believe Sanjay Gupta who is a real doctor over Michael Moore any day.

waiting 8 months for a scan definitetly is not a selling point for such a health care system. I think, (and this is only based on people I know who have gone through nightmares in the private health care system), I think that there are a lot of inconsistencies in the way we manage health care in the U.S. If you have great insurance and can afford it, you see no problem. It comes down to a moral question of wealth. Does a person who makes 35k per year deserve exactly the same level of health care as say, Warren Buffet? or does Buffet deserve the ultmost in health care because no expense is pared for his health care, while the 35k per year person only gets what they can afford in the health insurance covered world? Is this merely a perception of inequality or is it the way it really is? What is fair? Should the poorer among us have our health care subsidized in order to receive exemplary care or do subsidies generate a poorer quality in the long run? How much do people without health insurance end up costing the tax payer or do we just hope they die young and cut our losses? questions, questions. I for one appreciate Moores movie simply because it keeps the light shining on this topic.

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Turk Quid Pro Quo

Actually, to give just another point of view,another thread of discussion on this one aspect of this particular issue...

Many people with families who work in environments without stellar pay choose not to buy the insurance offered by their workplace not with the deliberate intent of waiting for a "hand out", but simply because they cannot *afford* that sort of deduction from their pay and still effectively *live*. When you're working on a very limited budget, yes, it can come down to a choice between paying an insurance premium, and keeping food on the table for your children. In an economically disadvantaged community, where employment opportunities aren't plentiful, and paychecks aren't bountiful, there are often situations where a person enrolling in an employer sponsored health care program,and paying for their own premiums are practically living on pennies after the deduction for their medical insurance. For a single person, that might be workable, however, for a family trying to keep themselves out of the welfare system,and off of food stamps, it might not be possible.

There are also instances of extinuating circumstance, such as pre-existing conditions excluded in employer-sponsored insurance programs, etc, that limit health care options.

Opting out of an employer sponsored health care program isn't necessarily a choice made lightly, nor is it always reflective of someone wanting a "hand out".. it may be the only recourse for an economically disadvantaged family.

Just for the record, I am very cynical about government hand outs because I grew up in community with many people getting government hand outs and driving a nicer car than my dad who was working his a** off to raise 5 kids, pay the mortgage, and pay for good health insurance.

I think it would be an interesting study to see what kind of car people who say they cannot afford health insurance drive along with seeing what kind of cable TV package they have.

With that said there are definite problems with US health care but the supposed cure Moore is offering is even worse than the problem he is trying to cure. Like I said before I think the Malaysian system is a fair national health care system. If you want free health care you go to the government hospitals staffed with trainees and interns and the doctors are the interns teachers. Waits are longer than the private hospitals but it is free. I think such a system would not greatly increase taxes while maintaining quality and timely health care for those who want to pay for health insurance.

Here is a good write up on Michael Moore's movie as well:

http://www.billoreilly.com/newslette...0844?pid=21601