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| Yongsan Garrison (Seoul) - 서울 Discuss issues related to Yongsan and Seoul. |
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#1
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Yongsan MP demoted for fraternization
I can't believe people in high ranks believe they can still get away with stuff like this. Threatening people with transfers if they talk?
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#2
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Can't tell for sure...
It sure appears that he let the situation get away from him!
I don't see the adultery or cruelty charges in the article? Obviously no one would testify. I think I would have gotten a civilian lawyer to fight that one. I'll bet they didn't have any real evidence on some charges, and tricked him into volunteering to get out. I 've seen enough Courts Martial's to wonder about them. Boy, he sure paid a price if he agreed to quit after 18 years! All I see is fraternization and lying under oath. Not serious enough for a discharge. We'll see if he really resigns after 90 days. I'll bet it will cool off and he will appeal! We'll see. Note-("Conduct -Unbecoming" doesn't apply to NCO's.) |
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#3
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The powers to be must of wanted to look good for Congress and watch dog groups. If he has 90 days to tender his resignation, does this mean immediately or would EUSA keep him around until is 20 is up and reassign him to another unit? Immediate discharge does seem too much in this case. Then again were there any mention of prior acts or complaints? Not a good situation to be in. I want to know what the 'one charge of cruelty and maltreatment'. That could be the straw that broke the camel's back.
Last edited by sejongeb : 04-14-2006 at 06:59 AM. |
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#4
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or they had enough stuff on him to get him and since they'd rather plee out then waste there time and the courts they let him off
but i don't know enough about military law to really understand what got him in trouble... i dind't know adultery was a crime O.o |
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#5
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My guess is laziness and stupidity brought the trouble about. Becoming to comfortable with bending rules ALWAYS, ALWAYS leads to trouble and getting on some higher up's radar. Once someone's on it, it's hard to stay off the radar unless someone else screw's up more. Here's what I don't get. He's in Seoul and can't find a decent civilian chick to hook-up with. One that's not a protitute in this case. There's numerous ESL teachers, corporate type of women running around the greate Seoul area and he gets lazy and frats around with lesser ranking females. He was around during the last big sexual harassment scandal were some DI was raked over the coals. Just because one scapegoat gets the book doesn't mean that the issue is over. If he even spent time looking on either the EUSA or USKF offical website, he'd see in I believe the bottom left corner a link to sexual harassment prevention. If theis dude looked younger than his age, there's plenty of college chicks that he could of hooked up with. On a practical level he should of thought about how close he was to the 20yr mark and found other avenues to cure his needs. They may have reached a plea agreement and the victims may of had overwhelming evidence to get to a plea, if applicable. We won't know anytime soon that for sure.
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#6
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The Reason for the "Fraternization"?
Laziness and stupidity?
I don't think that is something that would be attributable to an NCO with 19 years service. Well, remember, all we are doing is speculating without really knowing what actually went on. So I will speculate also. 1, Men were created to pursue women. That's how the world operates. Most societies have social mores which frown on, or even prohibit married men continuing the pursuit. Man's brain and sexual attraction and built in natural urges to pursue do not stop with marriage. If he is "Controlled" by the society, law, love, religion, commitment and /or a moral philosophy that says monogamy is the way to go, he may resist the temptation to pursue. And he may not. 2. Another possibility is that he may actually have been attracted to the female biologically, but realized that he should contain himself, so attempted to just do nice things for her. Maybe he felt like a mentor or good Samaritan, or even a father figure, and felt justified because of his position as a leader. Or not. He did admit to overlooking the military rules against fraternization. 3. Judge not, lest you be judged, is a Christian Bible quote, that is a pretty good way to go through life, no matter your persuasion. 4. It really does us no good to condemn someone just because charges were made and someone was accused. Real judges can do that. If the guy was a person deserving of such a severe punishment as being deprived of a 20 year retirement for an error in judgement at this late date, let those who have all the facts figure it out. It is a terrible punishment to lose everything after 20 years! Now you want to say,"Yeah, but... . (O.K. go ahead, speculate.) Last edited by Mr. Joe : 04-15-2006 at 04:02 PM. |
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#7
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I am not sure when one is discussing a recent conviction they are necessarily condeming them. In this case he was tried and convicted. There is a huge disparity between the punishment that is imposed on an enlisted and an officer.
Case in point. There are currently enlisted soldiers who are incarcerated for prisoner abuse. One was convicted for having her picture taken with some prisoners in a compromising position. Then you have the WO in Ft Knox who placed a sleeping bag over the head of a prisioner and sat on his chest during interogation. He was convicted; however, did not receive any prison time in his sentencing. There are far too many cases where the officer had a slap on the wrist and the enlisted went to prison. Now back to the 1sg who decided to use his positon of authority to gain sexual gratification. As some of you may recall a few years ago the CSMA had to resign shortly after releasing the Sexual Harrasement tape. If anyone has been around any training installation they can tell you of the almost monthly charges and courtsmartial convictions of the Drill Sgts and Instructors who also had the same ideas. These are kids they are taking advantage of throgh intimidation. It is a power issue and nothing more. The one thing they need to ask is it worth your career. The devil made me do it does not wash. It tears at the morale fibre of the unit morale and that does not wash. I guess I am old school and have the believe that sex in the work envirornment has no place, especially in the military where discipline above all is the key element. |
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#8
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Quote:
Well i have to TOTALLY disagree with you on that one. Espically now a days! Thats as much as I'll say on that. ![]()
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They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. --Gerald Massey |
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#9
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Don't know much about quoting the Bible here nor the sociology lesson. What it boils down to is nothing to do with physiological needs and psychological desires. It is poor impulse control and problem solving abilities on the 1SG part. I might add is also in numerous places in the Bible, regardless if it's a KJV, NKJV, NIV, NAS, RVS, CES and so on-the controlling of and utilizing of. I would want to be judged in the manner. That little phrase 'appearence is everything' is true. That's why when someone attempts to go for E-7 or so they send a full size picture with the paperwork. That person could be the most profound speaker or be a blundering bafoon, the picture and the service record is what's being judge and is the only two make-it or break-it factors one has for a promotion outside of wartime. Moreover, numerous leardership courses stress the lead by example mantra. I always try to think about the effect of my actions before acting upon them. If I make a fool out of myself, then I'm a fool for trying out that way and will do something different next time. But never have I use a postition of authority as a means to get a sexual favor. I could see how that would play out and I like and need my $$$.
Some women would argue that it's a certain kind of hair away form rape and they'd say just about anything to get you to understand their point. Most corporations have dating policies on the books as well. It's surely a topic that has taken a reactive stance lately instead of a proactive one. It's too bad that we all don't have the court room transcripts for this instead of the crime and the conviction. I can make the argument as well about the physiological and pyschological aspects and throw out a plethora of points under DSM-IV and cases that would support the arguement. But where is the justice be for the two victims in this case and the next set of victims. The man's career is shot and possibly (if married) his family life and that is indeed sad, it doesn't justify the conduct or treatment of the two females. One of members of my squad was up for a AR-15 and myself, my E-7 and platoon leader had to be in the CO's office prior to the reading of the pending charges. We all got our chance to give our input before the 1SG spoke and while he quasi-held his decision back his point to use was that the SM had disgraced his uniform. Unfortunately that's what happened in this case. Regardless of the cause and effect or how you or I could twist the facts the points or placate to lustful desires, it still remains that the uniform was disgraced. So I'll take that judgement and sleep well at night knowing that I knew where the line was and didn't use any tricks to bend or manipulate the circumstance. Y'all have a nice day now. Last edited by sejongeb : 04-15-2006 at 10:15 PM. |
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#10
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Here is a partial quote from the Stars & Stripes article:
"(He) admitted in court he let a platonic relationship with a junior female soldier grow from a mentorship into a close friendship that included giving her rides on off-duty time, letting the soldier and her boyfriend stay at his off-base home to avoid curfew violations and sharing a room with her on a group vacation to Thailand. (He) said the relationship, which lasted from May to November last year, spurred gossip within his company, lowered his soldiers morale and gave the appearance of favoritism. He chose her friendship, so to speak, over the good of the company, (He) told Chief Judge for the 6th Judicial Circuit Col. Patrick J. Parrish." ************************ The initial charges of cruelty, maltreatment, and threatening to transfer a soldier were DISMISSED. A couple of folks posting spoke of sexual gratification, and sexual favors? I see NO MENTION of any of that in the article! Did I miss something? Or could some of us have maybe assumed something? So it looks like he was convicted of Fraternization, which showed a bad example to his troops. Yeah, that's really bad judgement. But bad enough to lose a retirement? Keep discussing. |
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