I'm new to this forum, but want to give you all a "heads-up" about something I overheard today. I work for a media outlet (not in Korea), which will remain anonymous here. Apparently, a major news outlet is following up a story called, "Sex and the Soldier." They will be in Seoul, searching for discreet photo ops in sex districts, and areas frequented by GIs. Apparently, this weekend is a payday weekend? If you normally frequent these areas (even for drinks), I'd use caution and steer clear of any areas that might be questionable, and give them a wide birth. To be more specific, use caution between the hours of 5pm and 8pm (not just in the evening), as these are the times when I overheard cameras will be rolling before patrols by military police.

What does this mean? Absolutely nothing, if you are not doing something you shouldn't. Other weekends, drink and party to your heart's content. Just be careful this weekend!

This is interesting.

First off welcome to the site.

I am curious why a news organization would decide to do a story now about U.S. soldiers and prostitution in South Korea. The story has been done in the Stars and Stripes and other news agencies many times. So, they won't breaking any story on this.

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Simple. The US Media can use anything about GIs to make headlines!
Headlines sell papers, etc. And it is a great way for anyone other than Republicans to score points against the incumbent Party. Also, it seems there are anti Military groups around looking for negative stuff about the US Military. Maybe those who would suffer the most if the DRAFT comes back!

P.S. In Seoul, Intelligent GI's don't go to to off limits areas anyway. The action is on Post this weekend! The foreigners you see downtown are tourists and foreigners from other occupations, perhaps young "School teachers" who can't spell, so they teach "Conversation". I'll bet that photo op will be interesting, but may not get any GIs.

Guess we're not killing enough women and children lately...

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Joeninpo

The tyrant custom, most grave Senators,
Hath made the flinty and steel couch of war
My thrice-driven bed of down

This is one of the things that really at times makes me want to throw up my hands and then wash them clean of the whole business of trying to deal with the US-SK relationship. It is impossible enough to fight the myths and distortions from the Korean side, but when your own media and politicians kick you in the balls, why try?

Here is a link to a review I did of the Camp Town Prostitution issue that borrowed heavily (with permission) from the O'Sullivan Kunsan AB site review of the same issue.

In it, you will find references to a FOX news affiliate and some others basically jumping on the Korean bandwagon concerning this issue - and exactly following the Korean style: neither side can seem to ever include in the exposes about GIs behaving badly with whores - the state of prostitution in the rest of the society.

Couple these news shows with one of the minor trends in academia in the US that looks into the military, imperialism, and sex ---- and you get some US congress members playing along.

It's depressing.

It makes me want to grab some people by the ears and shake their ****ing heads loose.

How can you possibly do an expose on GIs using prostitutes in a foreign country without looking at the culture of prostitution as a whole in that nation?

It is infuriating.

And even if you paid a cusory glance at the state of prostitution in Korea, you'd be overwhelmed by how huge, open, and accepted it is.

But, our media and some congress people expect the GIs to be better?

" Apparently, a major news outlet is following up a story called, "Sex and the Soldier." They will be in Seoul, searching for discreet photo ops in sex districts, and areas frequented by GIs."
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Do they need something current? They could always find what they want in the archives of the net. Ogling
(Painting the pole dancers in the ville red? The photog back there already got the shot he wanted! )

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What does this mean? Absolutely nothing, if you are not doing something you shouldn't. Other weekends, drink and party to your heart's content. Just be careful this weekend![/quote]"
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What could they be doing that might be worth a damning picture?

This could have been a public service message to keep everyone well behaved. Keeping in mind that the window of photo opportunity wouldn't have to be only one weekend and the story not due right away, you could make it a blanket scare for the next few months.

"Here is a link to a review I did of the Camp Town Prostitution issue that borrowed heavily (with permission) from the O'Sullivan Kunsan AB site review of the same issue."
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Some interesting things to read about in it that, which i haven't thought about in a long while - and some interesting developments with globalization introducing foreign women into the mix. The treatment of the "business women" there was a concern of mine in the last months i was there and made a point of gathering as much info as i could about it. It was the mamasans who managed the women and they were some ruthlessly dishonest people. It was dispicable.
(Is the pricing in this graphic accurate? gads, what knuckleheads would pay that!)

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"...neither side can seem to ever include in the exposes about GIs behaving badly with whores - the state of prostitution in the rest of the society."
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Clearly, it wouldn't be fair if they are saying the GIs are why there are so many prostitutes in Korea, without touching on what their own demand has produced. I didn't see that argument made though, so it must be an underlying issue that festers.
What was this a rebuttal of though - do GIs behave badly with whores or is it just something bad when they cavort with them?

This is one of the things that really at times makes me want to throw up my hands and then wash them clean of the whole business of trying to deal with the US-SK relationship. It is impossible enough to fight the myths and distortions from the Korean side, but when your own media and politicians kick you in the balls, why try?...
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Where was there a kick in the balls? The articles i saw were not about the immorality of American soldiers.


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Couple these news shows with one of the minor trends in academia in the US that looks into the military, imperialism, and sex ---- and you get some US congress members playing along.

It's depressing.

It makes me want to grab some people by the ears and shake their ****ing heads loose.

How can you possibly do an expose on GIs using prostitutes in a foreign country without looking at the culture of prostitution as a whole in that nation?
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It looks to me like there are two different issues here and one is being overlooked - that one being the issue the media and congress brought up. The "expose" of American immorality (cavorting with prostitutes) is someone's rumor that got you started, while the issue of the media articles is something different - Isn't the issue a question whether human trafficking is being taken seriously enough and the possibility that Americans might be enabling it to happen by not recognizing it in the businesses they cater to?

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It is infuriating.
And even if you paid a cusory glance at the state of prostitution in Korea, you'd be overwhelmed by how huge, open, and accepted it is.

But, our media and some congress people expect the GIs to be better?[/quote]"
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It would be crazy if they only paid attention to the prostitution end of it - but doesn't look like what they're saying. The issue of the media stories that include congress is that they care about what we are about - not what anyone else is. We cant tell others how they should behave, but we do have some degree of say over how our own people should. Thats what it looked like the media stories were about - a completely separate issue than this rumor about immorality.

Keep in mind the media does its share of pointing to Asians involved in human trafficking. You might recall how the Japanese dont like our media talking about them doing it. They complain loudly about the coverage, while denying it happens there.

Wasn't the issue about the possibility of Americans supporting businesses that are involved in human trafficking? The template 2 article seemed to be more of a lament that Americans were being singled out as patronizers of prostitution, but i think it missed the point of the media articles. (It did recognize how it looks when Koreans make narrow complaints too, without considering the other side of the arguments).

The media and congress were concerned about the possibility of America not recognizing or being serious enough about possible human trafficking in the businesses they were catering to. Whether the trafficking stories are true or not isn't the point but should be a later focus of investigation (I would doubt a filipina from Angeles didn't consider there might be something else involved, since the main business in that town is the tourist bars - but a contract is still a contract).

The template article said the Americans have no legal power over the businesses in the villes, to affect how they hire (or anything else) but thats ignoring the enormous clout that a consumer group like an Army division has over the local businesses. An American commander can effectively put a bar out of business by making it off limits. The US Navy had no jurisdiction over Tijuana Mexico, but the commander's off limits order sure did alot to effect changes down there. If there really is human trafficking going on, then the villainous "academic media" is doing us all a favor to ask that question - which is all they did. There was no kick in the balls. It was just the opposite - a call for awareness. (If it was taken the wrong way and that caused frustrations, then it was self inflicted.)

Today, the concern is about human trafficking and whether enough is being done to take it serious. If Americans are supporting a business that engages in this, then the commander should take appropriate action to place the establishment off limits. The media helped us to be a better country for bringing it to our awareness - if they didn't, then we might unwittingly be supporting it, while publicly denouncing it. Better to be consistent in the eyes of the world, when they know the truth. We should know the truth too.

This looks like the sensible result of that media attention (which was why they did it). How well did Gen LaPorte's strategy affect the problem there, once it was brought to people's attentions? It wouldn't be too surprising if nothing happened and it was all lip service, as these things sometimes come to that. If that is the case, then the media should keep talking about it (and people should better understand why they are doing that, to prevent high blood pressure )

Maybe in a few years the issue will be about immorality and people will be leading a lobby to prevent servicemen from cavorting in anything "immoral" - which you can do in a free country if you can get a plurality - and/or buy the right congressmen (which Korean democracy adopted too and probably what makes trafficking there possible?).

Frankly, i see the immorality with the freedom of trading in sex from a willing seller to willing customers and think its a mistake for it to be made illegal - just look at what problems that these laws cause.
Reality is that prostitution is established outside of almost every US military installation in the world, but especially in Asia. The smartest military commanders have been the ones that accept the realities and demonstrate the best creativity at improvisation, when working with the local businesses to protect their troops. Every base commander has had some kind of interfacing with the local bars that cater to his command and its understood they carry alot of clout. When the VD rate was high in one division in Vietnam and the businesses weren't doing enough to control it, the base commander ordered the PX to hire the local women as contractors so their services could be purchased through the Army exchange system. That way, they could insure their health cards would be accurate. VD rates dropped to almost zero as a result - government property (GIs) was saved from "damage" and the division was kept at full strength. The General deserved a medal, but news of it reached the prudes back in the states and someone raised the real political correctness (as it has always been) to stop that immoral program. The result of that was VD rates going back to the high rates as before and many troops kept out of the field. But, at least they weren't sanctioning immorality, which was far, far worse to them than keeping a division at full strength in a war. (That is an example of out of sight and minds, irrationality.)

On these last two comments, it doesn't really matter if it is on the net or not or something seen everyday in Korea which we all know about or not.

There is a small trend in academia and intellectual circles in the US, within the much bigger movement of Feminism, that deals with prostitution, the military, and male-ness as a whole. Aggression, degradation, domination, gorilla mentality, and so on. To cut this short, it goes along in general with something we all might have heard before: that "if only women were president, we wouldn't see all these wars and such".

The books mentioned in the O'Sullivan review (which I used) fit directly in with this academic trend. Oh - almost missed this point ---- the trend needs/tends to focus on the US primarily, because it is all tied up in the Imperialism and Post-Colonial theory stuff that is as big an influence in academia today as Feminism. They don't really want to say "boys will be boys (and this is why we should hate them)" - altogether, they tend to end p saying, "White boys will be boys and this is why we should hate them".

You can see this by how they go out of their way to avoid looking at how native males in less developed nations use prostitutes or how they use prostitutes.

And this is probably one of the primary influences on why these outside news agencies coming in focus more on the foreign prostitutes. It is easier for both them and the Korean government to say such women are exploited "just for" the US military, even though it is the Korean government that has all the power. They issue the visas and they have the authority to investigate, arrest, and put on trial both the prostitutes and the Korean owners and managers of the bars. USFK cannot.

We cross posted, so the last comment of mine is actually covering the two comments above the next one in line --- and this comment comes in relation to the last one.

I am highly skeptical about the idea that the US media outlets were trying to do a good deed: that they were searching for the truth about human trafficing in Korea and whether or not the US military was causing it. I think they were trying to make the headlines more banner-worthy - more sensational in order to grab the audience's attention more.

Saying their leaving the focus on the US military because the US has no control over the host nation ---- that the focus is on our house and how we should work hard to keep it in order even if we can't control the host nation -- doesn't work for me. Again, I don't believe the media decides to write these stories in order to do any kind of social good. I think they do them from time to time because they are "juicy" sex stories they think will titilate the audience. But, even if they were trying to do a social good, not putting the prostitution - including foreign sex workers - in the context in which it is taking places is ---- just shitty journalism.

These news items make a reader/viewer think that the problem is squarly with the US military and its GIs. The impression it drives home is that not only can the US military do something to stop it --- the US military is what set it up to begin with. Again, this is irresponsible journalism.

The reason it is such a kick in the balls has to do with how this stuff plays inside Korea.

Living in Korea and paying attention to how the process of anti-Americanism works across the society is a grinding, frustrating thing. Trying to combat all the misinformation, hyperbole, frequent down right lies, and such is an impossible task, but it is one that needs to be done as long as we maintain a committment of so many resources (and lives) inside Korea.

But - when you turn around, and the US media and eventually members of congress jump on board the anti-US groups' bandwagon, without bothering to take a look at the reality on the ground, it is a hard blindsiding to endure.

I admit the idea that the US side should be doing whatever IS within its power to strike at something as evil as sex-slavery is an attractive idea, but I don't know how workable it is.

I guess undercover agents from USFK could seek to investigate which bars around US bases employ women held against their will. ----- I guess they could push their investigation beyond what the Korean police are willing to do. And then when they find enough evidence of the sex slavery - they can add that establishment to the off-limits list....

I don't know how much that would effect the importing of foreign women. It is at least highly questionable whether it would have a major impact or not.

It is also more than likely such investigations would NOT be welcomed at all by the locals and Korean society as a whole (the bar owners, police, community leaders, and higher up Korean politicians).

I do not think this is close to being just an issue of "keeping our own house in order". There are some clear agendas involved with both the Korean and US media coverage of the prostitution around US bases and sex-slavery in Korea.